IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

4 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Hows this for an HP?, Custom Heavy Pistol
UPTD
post Oct 8 2004, 01:19 AM
Post #1


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 7-October 04
From: The Barrens
Member No.: 6,732



heres an idea for a Heavy Pistol. The FCU cost is listed beneath the modification.

Ceramic Components
-.75
Improved Concealability (2)
-.5
Improved Power (1)
-.25
Weight Decrease (6)
None



Engraving
None
Internal Smartlink-II
.5
Extended Clip
None
Personalized Grip
None

Final Stats

Power
10
Damage Level
Moderate
Mode
Semi Automatic
Concealability
7
Weight
2.755 + or - some
Ammunition Capacity
20
Ammunition Loading
Clip/Clip
Mount
Barrel, Top
FCU
.5
DPV
595
Total Cost
¥2975
Recoil Compensation
1
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BitBasher
post Oct 8 2004, 01:47 AM
Post #2


Traumatizing players since 1992
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,282
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 220



A perfect example of why GM's get approval over all firearms! :D

Hell no.

This is exactly why those rules are broken. :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kagetenshi
post Oct 8 2004, 01:55 AM
Post #3


Manus Celer Dei
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 17,006
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802



What's the matter with this again?

~J
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Oct 8 2004, 02:38 AM
Post #4


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



Paying nearly 3K :nuyen: for that? I guess it is true what people say about paying for what you get.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RangerJoe
post Oct 8 2004, 02:41 AM
Post #5


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 749
Joined: 22-June 02
From: Parts Without
Member No.: 2,897



I'd buy it if it had a snazzy name and came in custom colors.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Oct 8 2004, 02:44 AM
Post #6


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



Make it in Rutherium polymers and you'll get any colour you want.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kagetenshi
post Oct 8 2004, 02:45 AM
Post #7


Manus Celer Dei
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 17,006
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802



QUOTE (toturi)
Paying nearly 3K :nuyen: for that? I guess it is true what people say about paying for what you get.

Exactly why I have no problem with it. Ruthenium idea's good, too.

~J
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blakkie
post Oct 8 2004, 02:51 AM
Post #8


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,718
Joined: 14-September 02
Member No.: 3,263



My guess he has issues with the lethality of an Assult Rifle firing EX-EX (albeit with a slightly undersized magazine) using only standard rounds, while having the concealability envied by a light pistol carrying that much ammo. With a concealing holster and long coat it's has what, a conceal of 13? He gets his hands on Ex-Ex for it and he might as well name it a "Noisy Cricket". ;)

For only $3000 that's beyond a steal of a deal.

P.S. To his credit though he didn't give it a burst-fire mode.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
xizor
post Oct 8 2004, 02:56 AM
Post #9


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 160
Joined: 16-August 03
Member No.: 5,501



and remember that the Ruthenium would add +4 to the conceal, making the conceal of this gun somewhere around 11.

but only as long as it is clearly displayed where every one can see it.
Because the gun wouldn't get the modifyer for being invisible if the gun was where it could not be seen, like under a jacket?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patrick Goodman
post Oct 8 2004, 02:57 AM
Post #10


Tilting at Windmills
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,636
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Amarillo, TX, CAS
Member No.: 388



QUOTE (BitBasher)
A perfect example of why GM's get approval over all firearms! :D

Hell no.

This is exactly why those rules are broken. :)

I fail to see how this is broken. Care to explain it to me, in simple declarative sentences (it's been a bitch of a day at work and I can't deal with much more than those at this point)?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kagetenshi
post Oct 8 2004, 03:01 AM
Post #11


Manus Celer Dei
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 17,006
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802



QUOTE (blakkie)
My guess he has issues with the lethality of an Assult Rifle firing EX-EX (albeit with a slightly undersized magazine) using only standard rounds

Congratulations, your first portion describes the Ares Predator. Given that the thing isn't even suppressed without a conceal-reducing addon, I'd say the ammo capacity is unrealistic but not broken.

~J
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Raygun
post Oct 8 2004, 03:29 AM
Post #12


Mostly Harmless
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 937
Joined: 26-February 02
From: 44.662,-63.469
Member No.: 176



QUOTE (Patrick Goodman)
I fail to see how this is broken. Care to explain it to me, in simple declarative sentences (it's been a bitch of a day at work and I can't deal with much more than those at this point)?

It's got a 10M damage code, a capacity of 20 rounds, and a conceal rating of 7. Gotta go with Bit Basher on this one. Something is out of whack, and I do believe it has to do with the rules that created it.

Of course, that's just my opinion.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blakkie
post Oct 8 2004, 03:41 AM
Post #13


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,718
Joined: 14-September 02
Member No.: 3,263



QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Oct 7 2004, 09:51 PM)
My guess he has issues with the lethality of an Assult Rifle firing EX-EX (albeit with a slightly undersized magazine) using only standard rounds

Congratulations, your first portion describes the Ares Predator. Given that the thing isn't even suppressed without a conceal-reducing addon, I'd say the ammo capacity is unrealistic but not broken.

~J

No, the Predator has the lethality of a typical SMG loaded with Ex-Ex (sans BF of course). The Hatamoto "Heavy Pistol" does have an insane damage code, but that's different in that it's an SS, effectively a sawed-off shotgun (and somewhat loco), has a lower conceal, can accept no silencer (it's a freakin' shotgun), and without the SL2 system costs 2,400¥ on the street.

P.S. I trust it is ok that we not speak of the insanity that is the Ares Viper Slivergun? ;)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Oct 8 2004, 03:46 AM
Post #14


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



Why not? It is a Canon weapon. I see it as a good weapon to benchmark against.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Necro Tech
post Oct 8 2004, 03:52 AM
Post #15


UMS O.G.
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 444
Joined: 18-May 04
Member No.: 6,335



The big problem is that no customization options mention loss of concealability. Put a bipod, gas-vents and laser sight on your assault rifle ans still it fits under the coat. The things I mentioned have a concealability loss listed for them under their parts in the book but a big clip doesn't seem to matter. Anyone think This could have a concealability of 7? By the rules..........
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Oct 8 2004, 03:56 AM
Post #16


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



I've always add the concealability loss to the weapons with the appropriate attachments. Just that the Concealability Rules are in a different part of the book.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Necro Tech
post Oct 8 2004, 04:01 AM
Post #17


UMS O.G.
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 444
Joined: 18-May 04
Member No.: 6,335



Me too, but buying a bigger clip is not an option. There are no rules for how much concealability is lost for a 50 rnd pistol mag.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blakkie
post Oct 8 2004, 04:01 AM
Post #18


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,718
Joined: 14-September 02
Member No.: 3,263



QUOTE (toturi @ Oct 8 2004, 03:46 AM)
Why not? It is a Canon weapon. I see it as a good weapon to benchmark against.

Why not the Ares Viper Slivergun? Ummm, well if you don't get it then i'm not really sure i can explain. Well first it has a commanding lead in firearm models that are house-ruled out of existance. Primarily due to the BF, although the magazine capacity vs. conceal is also a factor. Second, if you want to still drag it in, it is actually only 9M damage if it were to use standard rounds (which i always assumed it didn't).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Raygun
post Oct 8 2004, 04:04 AM
Post #19


Mostly Harmless
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 937
Joined: 26-February 02
From: 44.662,-63.469
Member No.: 176



QUOTE (toturi)
Why not? It is a Canon weapon. I see it as a good weapon to benchmark against.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blakkie
post Oct 8 2004, 04:07 AM
Post #20


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,718
Joined: 14-September 02
Member No.: 3,263



QUOTE (Raygun @ Oct 8 2004, 04:04 AM)
QUOTE (toturi)
Why not? It is a Canon weapon. I see it as a good weapon to benchmark against.

LOL, i must concede that as a response far superior to mine. :rotfl:
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Oct 8 2004, 04:09 AM
Post #21


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



OK, I admit I do not get the reference/joke. So what the hell are you talking about, Raygun? What's with the vision chart?

As I explained before, if there are rules in the book, leave the Real World behind and use the books. If there aren't, I am comfortable using RL.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Modesitt
post Oct 8 2004, 05:02 AM
Post #22


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 316
Joined: 18-July 03
Member No.: 4,963



I consider the CC gun construction rules to be the height of irony. They were written in order to allow people to customize their characters with a unique weapon...but they effectively removed all uniqueness.

Look at the Ares Predator and the Browning Max Power. It's basically pure personal preference which one you want at char gen - One's a little bit more concealable and , weighs just a little bit less than the other, but one has a larger magazine. The CC rules make that decision go away - You can now have a gun that is is lighter, more concealable, and a larger magazine than both. There's little reason for the Ares Predator or Browning Max Power to exist anymore.

You no longer look at the Morrissey Elite and go "Man, that conceal 7 and a laser sight is great...but a magazine of 5...". Now you look at it and go "I could make a gun like that, but with a spoiler, hood ornament, and spinning hubcaps and still have a conceal of 7."

You no longer look at the Ruger Super Warhawk for even a split second. The 10 power doesn't mean anything - You can have 10 power with any pistol and you don't need to have a conceal of 4 either.

The moment you can build a gun that is "Like X, but with Y too", the system is broken. It doesn't matter if you view it's balanced because it's high-priced or your GM can be a prick and take it from you or your GM can say "Oh, Lonestar knows who you are now." "But I didn't register the gun with anyone." "It doesn't matter, they're at your front door now" because he could before too or whatever the fuck else you want to say makes it balanced. It removes choices and uniqueness from characters. It shouldn't exist.

The CC rules should be much stingier with FCU points. Doing so would much more accurately reflect the weapons already in the SR universe. Possibly some kind of 'internal mount' system. Instead of having a pool of FCU points, you have a certain number of 'internal mounts'. Some things might take up multiple 'mounts' on certain chasis. For example, Burst Fire on a pistol might take up all but one of the 'mounts' on a pistol.

My personal preference? Compare your gun to other guns. If it's flat-out better than the others, ask yourself what the problem is: Does the other gun suck or is your gun too good?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Oct 8 2004, 05:14 AM
Post #23


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



Modesitt, you forgot there is also an Availability and Street Index tacked on, in addition to the cost. If you want to use the rules, (I've said this many times), you got to use all of them. Why can't you have a gun that can do both X AND Y? You can have a aeroplane that is both a fighter and a bomber, can't you?

All the factors of the gun must have equal weight, When you say, I do not care about this or that you are effectively ignoring those rules. I could do the same and say I couldn't be bothered about how powerful or how many rounds the gun has and be fixated on the cost. It would equally be just as ridiculous!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BitBasher
post Oct 8 2004, 05:23 AM
Post #24


Traumatizing players since 1992
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,282
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 220



QUOTE
Why can't you have a gun that can do both X AND Y? You can have a aeroplane that is both a fighter and a bomber, can't you?
Arguably no, not that's good at both jobs.

QUOTE
All the factors of the gun must have equal weight, When you say, I do not care about this or that you are effectively ignoring those rules.
We're okay ignoring those rules, because those rules are horribly horribly broken, noone here is arguing canon, just that we thing it's on crack and we wouldnt allow it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Oct 8 2004, 06:07 AM
Post #25


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



I was replying to Modesit on his point that he was comfortable ignoring the gun cost and other factors but not that the gun could have high power and other stuff.

I think that the rules needs be re-written too, but at least it is consistant. And it fits the current Canon guns in the BBB.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 11:30 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.