Hows this for an HP?, Custom Heavy Pistol |
Hows this for an HP?, Custom Heavy Pistol |
Oct 8 2004, 01:19 AM
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#1
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Target Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 7-October 04 From: The Barrens Member No.: 6,732 |
heres an idea for a Heavy Pistol. The FCU cost is listed beneath the modification.
Ceramic Components -.75 Improved Concealability (2) -.5 Improved Power (1) -.25 Weight Decrease (6) None Engraving None Internal Smartlink-II .5 Extended Clip None Personalized Grip None Final Stats Power 10 Damage Level Moderate Mode Semi Automatic Concealability 7 Weight 2.755 + or - some Ammunition Capacity 20 Ammunition Loading Clip/Clip Mount Barrel, Top FCU .5 DPV 595 Total Cost ¥2975 Recoil Compensation 1 |
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Oct 8 2004, 01:47 AM
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#2
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
A perfect example of why GM's get approval over all firearms! :D
Hell no. This is exactly why those rules are broken. :) |
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Oct 8 2004, 01:55 AM
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#3
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
What's the matter with this again?
~J |
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Oct 8 2004, 02:38 AM
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#4
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Paying nearly 3K :nuyen: for that? I guess it is true what people say about paying for what you get.
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Oct 8 2004, 02:41 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-June 02 From: Parts Without Member No.: 2,897 |
I'd buy it if it had a snazzy name and came in custom colors.
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Oct 8 2004, 02:44 AM
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#6
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Make it in Rutherium polymers and you'll get any colour you want.
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Oct 8 2004, 02:45 AM
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#7
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Exactly why I have no problem with it. Ruthenium idea's good, too. ~J |
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Oct 8 2004, 02:51 AM
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#8
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
My guess he has issues with the lethality of an Assult Rifle firing EX-EX (albeit with a slightly undersized magazine) using only standard rounds, while having the concealability envied by a light pistol carrying that much ammo. With a concealing holster and long coat it's has what, a conceal of 13? He gets his hands on Ex-Ex for it and he might as well name it a "Noisy Cricket". ;)
For only $3000 that's beyond a steal of a deal. P.S. To his credit though he didn't give it a burst-fire mode. |
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Oct 8 2004, 02:56 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 160 Joined: 16-August 03 Member No.: 5,501 |
and remember that the Ruthenium would add +4 to the conceal, making the conceal of this gun somewhere around 11.
but only as long as it is clearly displayed where every one can see it. Because the gun wouldn't get the modifyer for being invisible if the gun was where it could not be seen, like under a jacket? |
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Oct 8 2004, 02:57 AM
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#10
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Tilting at Windmills Group: Members Posts: 1,636 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Amarillo, TX, CAS Member No.: 388 |
I fail to see how this is broken. Care to explain it to me, in simple declarative sentences (it's been a bitch of a day at work and I can't deal with much more than those at this point)? |
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Oct 8 2004, 03:01 AM
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#11
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Congratulations, your first portion describes the Ares Predator. Given that the thing isn't even suppressed without a conceal-reducing addon, I'd say the ammo capacity is unrealistic but not broken. ~J |
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Oct 8 2004, 03:29 AM
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#12
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
It's got a 10M damage code, a capacity of 20 rounds, and a conceal rating of 7. Gotta go with Bit Basher on this one. Something is out of whack, and I do believe it has to do with the rules that created it. Of course, that's just my opinion. |
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Oct 8 2004, 03:41 AM
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#13
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
No, the Predator has the lethality of a typical SMG loaded with Ex-Ex (sans BF of course). The Hatamoto "Heavy Pistol" does have an insane damage code, but that's different in that it's an SS, effectively a sawed-off shotgun (and somewhat loco), has a lower conceal, can accept no silencer (it's a freakin' shotgun), and without the SL2 system costs 2,400¥ on the street. P.S. I trust it is ok that we not speak of the insanity that is the Ares Viper Slivergun? ;) |
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Oct 8 2004, 03:46 AM
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#14
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Why not? It is a Canon weapon. I see it as a good weapon to benchmark against.
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Oct 8 2004, 03:52 AM
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#15
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UMS O.G. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 444 Joined: 18-May 04 Member No.: 6,335 |
The big problem is that no customization options mention loss of concealability. Put a bipod, gas-vents and laser sight on your assault rifle ans still it fits under the coat. The things I mentioned have a concealability loss listed for them under their parts in the book but a big clip doesn't seem to matter. Anyone think This could have a concealability of 7? By the rules..........
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Oct 8 2004, 03:56 AM
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#16
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
I've always add the concealability loss to the weapons with the appropriate attachments. Just that the Concealability Rules are in a different part of the book.
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Oct 8 2004, 04:01 AM
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#17
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UMS O.G. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 444 Joined: 18-May 04 Member No.: 6,335 |
Me too, but buying a bigger clip is not an option. There are no rules for how much concealability is lost for a 50 rnd pistol mag.
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Oct 8 2004, 04:01 AM
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#18
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Why not the Ares Viper Slivergun? Ummm, well if you don't get it then i'm not really sure i can explain. Well first it has a commanding lead in firearm models that are house-ruled out of existance. Primarily due to the BF, although the magazine capacity vs. conceal is also a factor. Second, if you want to still drag it in, it is actually only 9M damage if it were to use standard rounds (which i always assumed it didn't). |
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Oct 8 2004, 04:04 AM
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#19
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
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Oct 8 2004, 04:07 AM
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#20
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
LOL, i must concede that as a response far superior to mine. :rotfl: |
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Oct 8 2004, 04:09 AM
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#21
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
OK, I admit I do not get the reference/joke. So what the hell are you talking about, Raygun? What's with the vision chart?
As I explained before, if there are rules in the book, leave the Real World behind and use the books. If there aren't, I am comfortable using RL. |
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Oct 8 2004, 05:02 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-July 03 Member No.: 4,963 |
I consider the CC gun construction rules to be the height of irony. They were written in order to allow people to customize their characters with a unique weapon...but they effectively removed all uniqueness.
Look at the Ares Predator and the Browning Max Power. It's basically pure personal preference which one you want at char gen - One's a little bit more concealable and , weighs just a little bit less than the other, but one has a larger magazine. The CC rules make that decision go away - You can now have a gun that is is lighter, more concealable, and a larger magazine than both. There's little reason for the Ares Predator or Browning Max Power to exist anymore. You no longer look at the Morrissey Elite and go "Man, that conceal 7 and a laser sight is great...but a magazine of 5...". Now you look at it and go "I could make a gun like that, but with a spoiler, hood ornament, and spinning hubcaps and still have a conceal of 7." You no longer look at the Ruger Super Warhawk for even a split second. The 10 power doesn't mean anything - You can have 10 power with any pistol and you don't need to have a conceal of 4 either. The moment you can build a gun that is "Like X, but with Y too", the system is broken. It doesn't matter if you view it's balanced because it's high-priced or your GM can be a prick and take it from you or your GM can say "Oh, Lonestar knows who you are now." "But I didn't register the gun with anyone." "It doesn't matter, they're at your front door now" because he could before too or whatever the fuck else you want to say makes it balanced. It removes choices and uniqueness from characters. It shouldn't exist. The CC rules should be much stingier with FCU points. Doing so would much more accurately reflect the weapons already in the SR universe. Possibly some kind of 'internal mount' system. Instead of having a pool of FCU points, you have a certain number of 'internal mounts'. Some things might take up multiple 'mounts' on certain chasis. For example, Burst Fire on a pistol might take up all but one of the 'mounts' on a pistol. My personal preference? Compare your gun to other guns. If it's flat-out better than the others, ask yourself what the problem is: Does the other gun suck or is your gun too good? |
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Oct 8 2004, 05:14 AM
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#23
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Modesitt, you forgot there is also an Availability and Street Index tacked on, in addition to the cost. If you want to use the rules, (I've said this many times), you got to use all of them. Why can't you have a gun that can do both X AND Y? You can have a aeroplane that is both a fighter and a bomber, can't you?
All the factors of the gun must have equal weight, When you say, I do not care about this or that you are effectively ignoring those rules. I could do the same and say I couldn't be bothered about how powerful or how many rounds the gun has and be fixated on the cost. It would equally be just as ridiculous! |
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Oct 8 2004, 05:23 AM
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#24
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Arguably no, not that's good at both jobs.
We're okay ignoring those rules, because those rules are horribly horribly broken, noone here is arguing canon, just that we thing it's on crack and we wouldnt allow it.
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Oct 8 2004, 06:07 AM
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#25
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
I was replying to Modesit on his point that he was comfortable ignoring the gun cost and other factors but not that the gun could have high power and other stuff.
I think that the rules needs be re-written too, but at least it is consistant. And it fits the current Canon guns in the BBB. |
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