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> Turrets and Recoil, plus Heavy Weapons ...
PiXeL01
post Oct 8 2004, 11:54 AM
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Lately I have wondered how this precisely works when looking at the effect turrets have on recoil. It is stated that turrets cancel out the double recoil modifier for uncompensated recoil on heavy weapons. It is also stated that recoil from weapons in a turret is halved.

Now my question is ... If a Vengeance is fired from a turret mount is the recoil from this action +1 pr round and then halved again, or is it just +1 pr round with no division of the final result ?

Thanks in advance
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DarkShade
post Oct 8 2004, 03:55 PM
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the BBB says turrets halve uncompensated recoil modifiers EFFECTIVELLY cancelling the double penalty for heavy weapons.. this is not an AND..

meaning a turret mounted SMG with 4 points of recoil comp. firing full auto 10 would get a +3 for uncompensated recoil as modifier. this instead of the +6 a character wielding this weapon would take.

a mounted HMG with 4 points of recoil comp firing full auto 10 bullets would take a +6 for uncompensated recoil, this instead of the + 12 a character wielding this weapon would take..


hope this clears it out :)

that said, I dont think there is any valid excuse for not having maxed out recoil compensation on a turret...
also remember this is only true for full turrets, not micor turrets, and IIRC also not popup turrets..
DS
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Kagetenshi
post Oct 8 2004, 05:20 PM
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Keep in mind that it's halved first, so those four points of recoil comp actually cancel eight points of recoil, and the remaining two are doubled for +4 instead of +6.

~J
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GoldenAri
post Oct 8 2004, 08:59 PM
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It works thusly.

HMG with 2 points of recoil compensation mounted on a turret fires a 10 round burst. +10 recoil modifier. Because it's mounted we halve the recoil (round down) before applying compensation. So I have +5 recoil, which I apply my 2 points of compensation. Dropping it to a +3 which is then doubled because all uncompensated recoil is doubled on a heavy weapon. This leaves me with a total recoil modifier of +6.

BBB p.111 & 151 is were I'm getting this from.

Now what always bothered me is why in the Rigger books you can buy up to 12 points of recoil adjustment for your weapon mounts. All you need to fully compensate an autocannon is 6 points, and an HVMG needs 9. I don't really understand why it's availible. I limit my players to a max of 5 points of recoil comp. for vehicle weapons and drop the ring mount from 6 to 3 points.
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JaronK
post Oct 8 2004, 10:58 PM
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It would come up when using a minigun, which may need all 12 points.

JaronK
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Modesitt
post Oct 8 2004, 11:46 PM
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GoldenAri nailed it. Mostly.

Why do you think medium or larger turrets allow you to seat two(3, if extra-large) people in them? So one guy can shoot a gun and the other can...stare off into space?

The high amount of RC available makes sense if you've got two dudes firing their guns on full auto. If you mount a pair of LMGs on it, 10 Recoil each divided by two is 5 recoil each. 12 RC compensates for that. Unless you have two gunners, there's no point in more than 9 RC.

If you have a minigun and some other 10-shot/pass gun firing, it comes to exactly 12 RC(Minigun needs 7 RC when mounted on a turret to have it's recoil reduced to nothing, 10-shot things need 5 RC to be reduced to nothing).

If you need more than 12(Psycho), the Tracked APC chasis has a body of 7 - Enough to, with the help of Gyroscopic Stabalization 14, compensate two miniguns. You'd be looking at a +7 to your handling, but in general, you don't need to run from much when you have two miniguns.
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SaddMann
post Oct 9 2004, 12:33 AM
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I don't have my books with me, but, IIRC, the wording is as PiX states, it cnacels out UNCOMPENSATED recoil. Wouldn't that mean:

HMG with 4 points recoil fires 10 round burst, +9 recoil (+1 for each round after the first), leaving +5 uncompensated. Because the HMG is heavy, then it would be doubled, but the turret dampens that, so the final target number (with a damage code somewhere around 24D) is +5.

My question: what is the target number for a sensor lock on a person? :twirl:
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Edward
post Oct 9 2004, 01:12 AM
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The time when you need more than 9 points of gunnery recoil unjust is when you mount 2 high velocity weapons parallel in a single turret. Nothing quite like 30 rounds of APDS heading towards an immovable object build. If we use the Aries HVAR this results in a damage code of 36D+8. Nothing is going to be getting up after that kind of perforation.

I don’t know if that type of double weapon stacking is strictly allowed but that is how we have been running it. Of cause so far I haven’t seen anybody decide to mount to HV weapons in it little own spend the money on AV rounds for it.

Edward
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Kanada Ten
post Oct 9 2004, 01:26 AM
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QUOTE
My question: what is the target number for a sensor lock on a person?

Human and metahuman signatures can be found in M&M. I think it is 6 for all but trolls who have 5, and then cyberlimbs reduce it further (gads that seems low is it 8 and 7?)
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Herald of Verjig...
post Oct 9 2004, 01:56 AM
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Nope, 6 and 5 are right. Yes, you can make small vehicles more stealthy than their pilots.
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Fortune
post Oct 9 2004, 04:00 AM
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QUOTE (SaddMann)
HMG with 4 points recoil fires 10 round burst, +9 recoil (+1 for each round after the first)...

That's the way it works in my game, but canon states +10.
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Edward
post Oct 9 2004, 05:09 AM
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It dose seem strange that with no recoil comp your so much less likely to hit with 1 bullet than you are to hit with your first bullet of a 10 round burst. By the time the recoil for the second and subsequent rounds affects your aim you’re the first should already be outside of the gun barrel and thus immune to further effect.

Is there some aspect of how guns work I don’t know (ok there are lots but do they explain this) or is it a flaw with the system we have to live with.

Possible house rule.
If you fire full auto or burst fire and miss take your highest number rolled

subtract the TN for a single shot (including condition modifiers such s range, aiming and recoil from other bursts but not recoil from this burst)

if firing a weapon with twice uncompensated recoil divide this number by 2 if firing from a vehicle multiply the number by 2

add any recoil modifiers that have not already been used in previous bursts.

The resulting number is the number of rounds that hit, calculate damage accordingly.

Unfortunately that means there is no damage related reason not to use full auto there is still reasons of noise and ammunition conservation but I don’t think that is enough. Also it is a bit complicated.

Edward
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mfb
post Oct 9 2004, 05:49 AM
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that's a pretty common houserule, ed. and there is a damage-related reason to use autofire, that way--+3 power/+1 damage level per 3 rounds. the problem with that system is, unless you get multiples of your high result, you can't stage the damage further with successes.

my favorite house rule so far--well, the best-sounding, anyway; haven't had a chance to field-test it--is to remove recoil penalties altogether, from autofire. you then apply a +2 modifier for using autofire. a single success means that you hit your target with a number of rounds equal to (1 + your recoil comp). beyond that, each success represents another round that's on-target. when the number of successes equals the number of rounds you fired, extra successes can be used to stage the damage.
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Edward
post Oct 9 2004, 08:49 AM
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But why would you ever not use auto fire.

Edward
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mfb
post Oct 9 2004, 08:55 AM
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conserve ammo, called shots, better chance of staging (2 successes instead of 3).
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Accel
post Oct 9 2004, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE (Edward)
But why would you ever not use auto fire.

... and to better silence shots you don't like to have others hear it.
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mfb
post Oct 9 2004, 07:25 PM
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oh, forgot to mention--successes that represent more bullets on-target don't count, for dodging purposes. until you exceed the number of rounds fired with successes, the target dodges as if you only had 1 success (ergo, only needs 2 successes to dodge your burst completely).
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