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[Edward]

I designed this weapon to fill what I preserved to be a hole in the market. I tried to make it balanced although to do this I did have to break the weapon design rules 3 times (in 2 cases to the weapons benefit, in another to its detriment).

The Ares HP232 versatile gun

Designed to accept 2 different clip sizes with its 6 round clip the HP232 is one of the most concealable weapons on the market being of totally ceramic construction and using caselles ammunition. The lager 40 round clip is much more difficult to conceal but provides staying power when combined with the weapons burst fire capability. The HP232 comes with our latest SL2 package as standard. The weapon will allow you to fire a 3 round burst threw the removable silencer we provide but doing so will void your warenty.

>>>>>>>(Void your warranty is what they say, destroy your silencer is what happens. Throws your aim right out and doesn’t work as well as a sound suppressor after the first shot. And do you think it’s a standard silencer. Noooo 1500 nuyen special order. More if you want it in less than a week and you wont find them on the black market. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great weapon but you don’t want to use burst fire with the silencer.)<<<<<<
-gun bunny 5

rules points. I allowed this weapon to mount a silencer in spite of the fact that it is burst fire capable. If you use the burst fire with the silencer attached you damage the silencer imposing +1TN and reducing its effectives to that of a sound suppressor. 2 shots latter it becomes completely useless. If you roll more 1s than successes on the first burst or any subsequent shot internal parts of the silencer have detached and jammed the gun. Removing the silencer will remove all penalties. The choice of clip is normally a no advantage option but I imposed a conceal ability penalty for using the lager clip.

Heavy pistol
Shortened barrel
Level 3 ceramic construction (undetectable by MAD)
SA-SA/BF
Improved conceal ability 2
Weight decrease 6
Internal smart gun 2
Extended clip.
Range finder
Silencer +.2kg & -2 conceal when attached
Improved FCU 6 (.25 unused)

Damage 9M
Mode SA/BF
Conceal ability 7 or 3
Weight 2.05
Ammo 6c or 40c
Mounts barrel, top
FCU 0.25
DPV 780

3900 nuyen

Anybody have any comments.

Edward

[GrinderTheTroll]

Why break the rules to make a super gun? Why would you bother with any other HP in the book?

[Siege]

Um...

Besides the obvious jokes, exactly what hole does this gun fill?

-Siege

[Raygun]

Heh. The ceramic-caseless-burst-fire-capable-silenced-pistol-with-6-round-or-40-round-magazine-capacity hole. Duh. :)

Quite a leap, there. 6 rounds to 40 rounds. How did we come up with that?

[Siege]

I'm trying to visualize a handgun with a drum magazine, but I can't get past the mountain of phallic jokes springing forth.

-Siege

[Edward]

I would use any other HP in the game if I wanted both moderate conceal ability and a clip that will last a fight. With this one you can do one but not the other at any given time. Also I would use a different gun if I wanted recoil compensation for the burst fire as this weapon has none and can only get 1 point without removing the silencer.

The hole it fills in an infiltration weapon that can be used in a serious fight if you also managed to sneak in its lager spare magazine (and find time to load it) effectively a lower version of the puzzler.

Edward

Edit add response to posts made while I was typing.

It isn’t to hard to envisage a 6 to 40 round jump with an associated drop in conceal ability. The 6 round clip slides into the grip like most pistols. The 40 round clip is in the same place but extends down in a fashion similar to an SMG.

Edward


This post has been edited by Edward: Oct 12 2004, 11:54 PM

[Siege]

Cough.

Is that a balrog in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?

-Siege

[Edward]

Any constructive criticism?

Now that you know what I was trying to achieve how would you change it?

Alternatively what is wrong with the concept to start with?

I am as much trying to work out how to make balanced weapons as I am trying to create this particular design.

Edward

[Siege]

Um...wow.

Ok, I don't know how constructive this is going to be, but you are trying to take every cool, nifty and otherwise wiz bit of gun construction to make the ultimate handgun.

And I will grant, there is certainly a market demand for the ultimate handgun, but I think the general reaction is...gawd, I hope that's a balrog.

-Siege

[Kagetenshi]

The larger clip, having no separate conceal, can be smuggled in and swapped once beyond all security.

~J

[Arethusa]

The Glock 18 can take a 17 round standard mag or a 30 (or was it 32?) round extended mag. We all know how much use that turned out to be in real life.

[Raygun]

[mmu1]

[Raygun]

And oddly enough, the Luger 08 artillery drum holds "only" 32 rounds. It's the same mag the MP18/I submachine gun used, at least until they figure out it sucked.

[Edward]

I forgot that little bit of mechanics.

Then the mechanics for clips suck anyway.

The same price and mass for any clip from the 4 round clip on the tiffany needler to the 50 round clip in the ares HVAR. And the fact that a clip has a mass 3 times that of several holdouts.

Has anybody ever bothered to apply a conceal ability to a clip. Would weapon concealability +1 or 3 whichever is greater be appropriate. This was based on the assumption that a clip will always be easier to conceal than the weapon in fits in and will not be harder to conceal than a pocket sectary (the most approximate sized object I could find in SR3)

Perhaps a more appropriate way the build the weapon would be as a light pistol and have the extended clip at 20 rounds.

Edward

[Kremlin KOA]

40 round clip conc 4, BBB referenbce to concealability of ammo, then there's the problem of plastic rounds having serious chemsniffer issues, people the clip is not undetectable

[Kagetenshi]

That's for the ammo itself, not the clip. So four different people all sneak in ten rounds.

~J

[Kremlin KOA]

riight so the party sneaks enough ammo for the sammy to have one clip.... this only produces a net saving of 10% on chance of detection (read multiply chance of detection if sammy carries the rounds by himself (assume guard perception test has at least 4 dice, if less you can get up to a 33% saving) what's the point?

[Arethusa]

If your problem is such that you need ammunition and security is tight, stop trying to sneak it through the front door. No security is perfect. If the front door is battened down tight, it's human engineering time, and a dead drop by a coerced employee or group plant can do wonders. If security is tight on that end, there are other ways. A ceramic knife is generally undetectable if you're careful, and that opens up all avenues of procure on site. Even without that, an adaptive and skilled operator can deal with the situation without needing to be initially armed— and, indeed, this can even be an advantage against more 'civilized' opponents.

But more important than all this is Sun Tzu's maxim: "to win without fighting is best." If you can enter, get your job done, and exit without ever starting a fight, or better, without ever being detected, you have succeeded far more than any braindead smash and grab team. Sneaking in 40 rounds for some machine pistol is a waste of time. You'll likely find more on the first guard you neutralize.

[Zenmaxer]

Alternatively you can simply seal your hi-c clip in a airtight bag and wash the outside of the bag well. This will get it past chem sniffers.

oh and Aret, one of the best ways to win without fighting is to scare them into submission with a huge gun.

[Siege]

[Arethusa]

[Siege]

I think it depends on just how airtight the bag is and how thoroughly cleaned the surface happened to be.

-Siege

[Zenmaxer]

:: nods :: considering that it would be very easy to completely seal and cleanse a container using just a machining kit, I would trust it. I wouldn't prolly even call for a B|R test. What skill would it be for? box b|r?

[Kagetenshi]

I just have hermetically sealed magazines available for sale that cost several times the cost of a full magazine. Needless to say, they're only good 'till you break the seal.

~J