Gac Master, A new custom weapon Options

[mrobviousjosh]

My GM wasn't sure what to think when he heard this from one of our players (playing a gecko shaman)/inventor on the side. He says it's balanced but we haven't found rules for this sort of thing. Anyway, I wanted some more opinions. Is it power gamed? I've already found about 6 areas when he min/maxed and did it ineffectively in an attempt (I feel) to take advantage of our inexperienced GM (which is why I'm helping out). Here's the stats on this weapon of mass destruction:
Concealability: 4
Ammunition: 10
Mode: SS
Damage: 8L
Weight: 6.25
Availability: 12/30 days
Street Index: 4
Accessories: Uses light pistol ranges. internal smartlink2 Smart2

*On a side note, how much build/repair in what skill would be needed to make this, since he has none. (I know, it's a joke.)

[mrobviousjosh]

On a sidenote, in his defense he does have 4 in Biology, Chemistry, Engineering, and Physics. Also, what skill would be used to use this effectively. Presently (because of size and weight I guess, he's been treating it like a submachinegun for use).

[Tanka]

1) It seems to be a Pistol, so Pistol B/R would be required.
2) He may need a facility, depending on the design options he has.
3) 8L isn't much... A Heavy Pistol has a damage code of 9M and isn't near as heavy and is SA instead of SS.
4) What kind of gun is it? HP? Why use LP ranges if it doesn't have any qualifying effects to make it need the shorter ranges?

The skill used to fire/make it is based on what kind of gun it is. If it's a heavy pistol, it uses Pistols. If it's a submachine gun, it uses SMGs. (B/R as required, 'natch.)

I honestly don't see what the point of this gun is, as it's far too heavy for something that is so much junk. (Not to mention expensive and hard to come across.)

[GrinderTheTroll]

I haven't run it through the cannon rules, but it just looks like a SS pistol. It's not overly abusive in any areas, doesn't seem to be very useful compared to a Heavy Pistol.

Am I missing something? Seems like a fun RP idea for a gecko shaman.

[mrobviousjosh]

Sorry guys, I forgot to include this. It's a chemical weapon (hence the nickname Gac Master). Unless the enemy has an appropriate level of chemical protection he argues it should continue to "burn them" for 3 rounds I think.

[Tanka]

Ah, in that case, it's, what... Spray Weapons?

And the "burning" depends on what chemical he puts in it. It isn't automatically acid, or liquid fire, or what have you. It can be any number of things. (My favorite is Hyper. Hehehehehehe....)

[Diesel]

Even three rounds of burning and it still doesn't do as much damage as a simple Ares Predator, let alone a shotgun or rifle.

[GrinderTheTroll]

Maybe if it just deliverd a chemical "bullet" (sounds like Unreal type Bio-blaster weapon). But the limited (and expensive ammo I'd imagine) might balance it to some degree.

Consider how much caustic material he would deliver might help determine how long the target would "burn". I treat the delivery like any other attack of the same type (acid, white-phosphorus, napalm, etc), and I don't know how armor is treated with those substances but considering the small amount deliverd, they might still provide some protection.

Interesting idea.

[Tanka]

He could use capsule rounds, easily. Fill them with some sort of chemical that pops the capsule on contact and is able to be skin-soaked (or grab DMSO and do that).

[Fortune]

Is it just me, or does Light Pistol range seem a little extreme for a Spray Weapon?

[Zeel De Mort]

For something that sends out a fine spray of chemicals - yeah it does a tad. You could use taser ranges instead.

On the other hand if it's liquid in a single high pressure jet it's pefectly believable. Flamethrowers nowadays can fire that far no problem, and twice as far in canon.

[mrobviousjosh]

Thanks guys, you've really provided some insight. Because it's chemical (I think acidic, I really don't know specifics but the general concept only affects organic material) the design ignores all armor that's not chemically treated above 5 I think. I particularly like the idea of taser ranges for it. He does treat it as the bio-weapon from unreal tournament that has globs of chemical sludge. The reason the 3 rounds is nasty is because he can hit you multiple times, each one technically treated as separate timers. I just remembered (it's been over a month and a half since I talked to him about the specifics of this gun) I believe he justifies the power partly because of cost/availability (he wants to produce the chemical himself?), quantity of shots, and also because it takes a complex action to "overcharge" the gun if it's in the low setting which can pass as a controlled chemical device, which he's applied for a permit on.

[Herald of Verjig...]

[tjn]

Tell your GM to go over the Additional Dosage Rules on pg 106 of Man and Machine. Chemicals do not get a second "timer" or whatever.

And to ignore armor, the character must utilise a called shot. Otherwise any armor will reduce the power by half the impact rating, rounded down. (Exposure via Weapons, pg 106 M&M).

Honestly, reread the first couple of pages in the chemical section of Man and Machine. Stick to them and his horrible monstrosity isn't all that bad.

[mrobviousjosh]

Thanks guys. I'm still an infant with Man and Machine and the gun just didn't sit right with me. You guys really know you're stuff and I'll make sure he gets all the info. he needs to neuter the weapon if the player still wants to use it.

[Kagetenshi]

That being said, there's no reason this can't be quite a good weapon. It'll be expensive and have its own limitations, though.

~J

[toturi]

First from a game mechanics point of view, the weapon should not be able to bypass armour. The only way I allow that is that he is using some liquid variant of Seven.

Assuming he is not using a Seven variant, I think from your description it should be a Spray Weapon. The damage code should be Special, just like the Supersquirt and not 8L. The chemical does the damage, not the spray.

Assuming he is using a variant of Seven, then I would require him to have at least a Chemical 6 and 2 or more successes against a high TN(10).

Remember the GM gets to set the Avail and SI as well as the Legality Code of the weapon even if you are using the CC gun creation rules. I do not think such a weapon should have a permit available for it, it sounds like a sec/mil spec weapon.

[blakkie]

It depends on whether he expects the damage to stage up several levels. At 8L no big deal. But an 8M for three rounds starts to hurt.

P.S. I believe that impact armour is used to reduce the body test vs. the power level of spray weapons. Make sure he doesn't try to argue that it gets to ignore impact armour, as your wording about requiring an chemsuit to protect against it could imply.

EDIT: Looks like toturi noticed it too. Maybe others in the thread, didn't have time to read it fully.

[tjn]

[blakkie]