Into D20, need help Options

[Sesix]

Ok I love SR as is, but all my friends are stuck on this D20 flux that has sprung from the hertical mouths of WOTC. I tried to get them to play it as is, but they cant get in to it, due to the taint of the D20 upon thier very gaming soul. So, I still wanted them to see, enjoy, and feel what SR is about, and well.......do any of ye know of a good place (sites, books,ect.) where I can get rules and info on hopes of converting this master peice into a some what resmblence they can understand, yet still shows and feels the true meaning of the game? Thx for any of the help ye can give.

[Edward]

D20 lakes several of the core elements of SR.

The one that is hardest to apply to D20 is degrees of success. Also the chance of success and failure when you really shouldn’t.

Wound penalties could be applied to D20 with effort.

If you come up with the degrees of success mechanic the spell system could be converted across.

The degrees of success, and wound penalties are the mechanics that back up the gritty reality of SR. I point you to raven loft witch utterly failed to scare me because you can be beaten to within an inch of your life and still shoot strait. The risks of magic are also part of this but without wound penalties loosing HP to cast a spell is just another form of mana..

Edward

[Sesix]

So maybe come up with the rule if yer say down 1/4 of yer life ye get a -1 to all rolls, then when yer down 2/4 it becomes a -2 and so forth? Or maybe go a little more extreme and have it -2 at 1/4 etc.? That sounds good to me. What ye think?

The magic part I dont know yet, I will have to do some studying on that.

I dont think degrees of sucess would be hard to do. As normal come up with the target number. If they beat the target number by say a couple numers (1-3), they suceeded but barely. If they get the number right on the dot, they just made it but cause of the lowness of thier roll, say it only works half ass. Something like that. In crease the sucess rate the further thier roll suceeds the target number. Well at least thats how I think it would be done.

[ES_Riddle]

SR d20 would (in my opinion) completely miss a lot of the grit of the system, both for the reasons that Edward mentioned and for the joy that is a natural 20 of guaranteed success. If you fail to convince them to try the SR system, then you should use the optional rule that a natural 20 is not an autosuccess and is instead treated as a roll of 30. I'd also the defensive roll optional rule instead of static armor class.

If you want to do degrees of success, good luck. The d20 system is built on hit or miss, so there is no room for marginal success.

[Wutasumi]

Triple the target numbers, and call it the DC.

Really, just make them use the D6, or just hit them with the BBB untill they forget all about D20 and say it's how you awalys played.

[Slacker]

Has anybody ever taken a look at the D20 game Cybernet from Mongoose Publishing? From the description it sounds like a conversion of shadowrun to the D20 system.

Personally, I would have to agree with ES Riddle, trying to apply the d20 system to shadowrun would lose alot in the translation. Despite its complexity when compared to d20, I would not want to play shadowrun any other way.

[mfb]

i bought it. it's... eh, it's okay, i guess. i really don't like their version of decking; it's too simplified and abstract. interesting way of handling 'essence loss', though. the loss is variable, instead of fixed--much cooler, i think.

[mmu1]

[FrostyNSO]

Make the close-minded 20-dicers play D6.

SR was simply not made to play with d20.

[Synner]

If you really must use D20 the best solution is to go drop the basic set and go with D20 Modern ruleset, use the additional magic rules from the setting Urbana Arcana (what a disappointment) and refer to the new D20 Future for passable systems for "decking", cyber and biotech. They don't plug perfectly into SR and D20's system will inevitably lead to the players missing out on some of the quirks that are inherent to the setting and that the SR3 mechanics reflect but that's a given. The way Magic works is a big one, but rigging, decking and combat will also be affected. Combat in particular is inherently more tactical and deadly with the SR ruleset than with D20 basic - wounds and modifiers make the way combat plays out very different.

[mfb]

i'm not sure it's quite fair to call the d20 players close-minded, given the general attitude towards d20 on these boards. accurate, maybe, but probably not fair.

[TheScamp]

[FrostyNSO]

If you go and play D20 modern with a Shadowrun setting, you may get them into the setting and game world, and they may like it. However, instead of having players who want to play D&D (or whatever) all the time, you will have players who want to play D20 modern all the time.

Serious, just dump them into Shadowrun as-is. They have roleplay experience, so they should catch on fast and you can teach the rules as you go.

I just get shivers thinking of "Epic Level" shadowrunners. Keep it karma, keep it D6, it'll pay off in the long run and save you lots of headaches.

[RangerJoe]

You know, I've sat through a lot of d20 bashing on these boards and even been complicit in some. I'm no fan of d20 and the reign of destruction it has brought to good games like Starwars d6, but here's my idea this time around: Your pals like playing d20. Cool. Some folks are like that. Let them roll up 6 stats like they're used to (only secretly call them Int, Wil, Cha, Quickness, Str, and Body) and go from there. Come up with some self-consistant (or self-arbitrary, if you prefer) rules. Do everything behind the GM screen, let them know what the results of their actions are, interpreted through the rolls of the dice, and buy lots of new SR books to give you good ideas. Everyone wins. Peace breaks out.

[Adam]

West End pretty much died in 1998 [although now it's been bought by someone new and brought back to life...], around the time they lost the Star Wars license. WotC's Star Wars [which features Degrees of Success, I might add, even though that's "unpossible!" for a d20 game. . .] was released in 2000.

Star Wars d6 died because WEG screwed the pooch, not because of d20.

[Wutasumi]

I like both, I just think it's a horrible idea for SR, it'd be like playing D&D D6...

[twofalls]

Wow, you guys seem so close minded ( I don't mean to offend anyone, it just seems that you are from where I sit. ) I run both D20 D&D and Shadowrun, and yes the systems are miles away from each other. Shadowrun is system intense, one of the most system heavy games out there (barring Rolemaster or Ares Magika). But the feel of the setting doesn't have to be compromised because of the system. Spirits/Astral Space are an issue, need to come up with a way to involve shamans that wont break a D20 system... but its not impossible. I say D20 Modern is a good start, I haven't looked at the Urban Arcana but I'd be more inclined to use the Shadowrun world and then use the D20 spells that make sense in a modern world. You could even rename a few to give them more modern sounding themes. It would be a little work, but its not hopeless.

I happen to like both rules sets, but the SR rules are far more intense than the D20 system and a bit much for some players. That doesn't mean a D20 Shadowrun game can't capture the excitement of corporate espionage or cyber/magic.

I'm standing against the crowd here. Go ahead and throw your rotten fruit... I'll just make wine. ;)

[hobgoblin]

d20 modern would be the way to go when it comes to a sr d20 lookalike. and from what i recall there are no epic level rules out for d20 modern. urban arcana i have not looked at but d20 modern have a small fx chapter about magic (and one about psionics btw) and covers the basics.

like stated before on threads about this, the hitpoints "problem" is taken away by a low set massive damage rule. damage from a single source that over a set number makes you roll a save or go down mustch as if you had taken a deadly wound in sr.

while d20 modern and d&d uses the same basic rules they have been tunes to diffrent worlds. d&d have a massive damage setting of 50 points flat. d20 mdern uses the constitution score, a number hit by most weapons on a lucky roll (avarage human is 10).

im not saying it will be the same as sr, not by a longshot, but i fear that forceing them over may just hurt rather then help (some people are hopeless that way, and that goes for both communitys)...

[FrostyNSO]

Don't get me wrong, D20 has a place in roleplaying there is no denying that. I like D&D a lot, but (and this is where it gets to personal style) I just think the D6 rules are more realistic. Of course every rule system can be abused to take that away, but When I was an RPG n00b, I was introduced to some d20 and shadowrun right off the bat, and the gritty d6 just appealed more and seemed more 'real world'. (funny considering it's a game with orks, magic, and nerds like me playing it)

[Sesix]

I completly agree that the D6 system SR uses is best fit for it. But as stated its a heavyer system type compared to the D20, but there in lies my problems. Im working with a group that prefer a kind of non-chalant form of play. They like skill checks all that. But they like the story more then the mechanics, and....well.....SR has alot of mechanics to remember while trying to enjoy it. Personally I love it, but my friends dont. I tried to get them to do it before and well, they just came out retarted by the D6. They were to use to D20.

[hobgoblin]

merge cybernet with urban arcana or something then ;)
its not sr by a long shot but its cyberpunk with trolls and magic...

atleast cybernet have the style in place (in a way). d20 future (that d20 modern addon) is to clinical in its descriptions of everything so that you will have to add all the flavor yourself. and cybernets cyberware is a bit more interesting then the stuff in d20 future to ;)

[Austere Emancipa...]

[ES_Riddle]

[Kremlin KOA]

uh it's worse... by fifth level the mage can gut the entire sec team in one action as by ther fireball does an average of 17.5 damage

[hobgoblin]

well if they port over the d&d troll they got worse things to worry about then stopping BFG rounds with their nose (namely regneration!).

i didnt say it would be a exact replica of sr, but to me atleast it removes the problem of takeing 10000 rounds and keeping on ticking. there is allso the fact that one can make a troll in sr able to stop a panther round so its not a inherent problem of d20...