How do Ghouls turn out in actual play? Options

[mmu1]

I was doing some reading lately, and took a look again at the Ghoul rules in CC, which made me wonder about a few things.

1. Ghouls are blind, but it's a zero-point flaw. Does that mean they can get cybereyes to be able to see normally? The book mentions ghouls getting cybereyes and plastic surgery to conceal their identity, but are they functional, or cosmetic? The rules don't specify...

2. As far as blindness and astral perception go, what the hell does "...a +2 target modifier for visual tests based solely in the physical world." mean? Presumably, ranged combat is a visual test of this sort - but what about melee combat? And does "solely in the physical world" mean "anything without a living aura" or "anything that isn't astrally projecting or dual natured"?

3. The Willpower (6) check at character creation - how do you GMs handle that? Does it seem ill-conceived to anyone for creating a Ghoul character from scratch, even with the +2 dice? Aren't ghouls disadvantaged enough without potentially getting no successes on the test? (and don't tell me all races aren't meant to be more or less balanced and equal - if they weren't, you wouldn't have to pay extra to be an Elf...) And what happens if someone ends up with Int or Cha of 0, do you keep them from creating the same exact character all over again - thus effectively re-rolling?

4. Are there any big advantages to being a metahuman-flesh eating blind monstrosity that I'm overlooking?

[Fortune]

[tjn]

[Tal]

There was an argument about the cost of a ghoul pc here a few months ago, when you look at it, it really doesn't balance out except for the rarity value of intelligent runner ghouls...

[Capt. Dave]

I gave my ghoul player a choice: take the result of 2 sucesses (no dis/advantages), or make the roll and take whatever he gets.
He took the former option.

A ghoul is an interesting addition to a team, and can cause some comedic relief, as well as potential problems

[Tal]

'Specially a mundie ghoul. 'Sorry guys, there's an astral barrier over the building. I'll just wait in the car, okay?'

[Zenmaxer]

Yeah... unless you're going completely munchkin, ghouls are almost totally useless. Even then, I generally hesitate to use them, especially because dual-natured is a 10 point flaw for a reason.. There's no pain like actually getting whomped down by two watcher spirits.

[Tal]

...The hell do you munch a ghoul?

[Herald of Verjig...]

[Dashifen]

Why a shifter? Just so you can regen?

[Kayne]

Not necessarily. You'd have to be pretty big, or hungry, to finish a whole ghoul in one sitting.

[Dashifen]

Yeah but that ghoul's not going to go down easy. Those nails are hard on the esophogus :)

[toturi]

To properly munchkinise a ghoul, you must make use of the Chargen procedure of creating a ghoul.

It is stated that a normal PC be created, before being Ghouled. Therefore, take all the Flaws a ghoul is going to get, then Ghoul him. IE get a PC that is Blind and is Allergic to Sunlight and has Sensitive System(or was that Biorejection?) then let him be Ghouled.

[stone-rhino]

Do mundanes become dual-natured if they turn into ghouls?

[Tanka]

Yes, Ghouls are dual-natured by (pardon the lack of words) nature.

[Eyeless Blond]

Which is why they suck; I'm not sure if anything a Ghoul gets is worth a 10-pt flaw

[Tanka]

While you're always active, that also means seeing any unmanifested spirits (which is a huge plus in some instances) and being able to deal with them while a lot of others can't (uh, pretty much 9/10 of the population?) even dream of seeing something unmanifested.

[Blaze]

At the risk of sounding like a complete munchkin (which I'm not, honest!), you could always make your Ghoul a Warrior Adept and fit him with Cybereyes, giving you IIRC four whole power points to play with on an already passably hard character. I don't know if other GMs do the same, but I allow dual-natured adepts (or, at least, the only one I've had to deal with) use their adept powers against astral targets too, albeit using Charisma as Strength. This can make quite a useful character for dealing with magical defences and threats. Just because you can be attacked by something that most of your team-mates are immune and oblivious to doesn't mean you can't beat the snot out of it.

-JH.

[toturi]

As long as the PC is dual natured and not projecting, he is entitled to use his Strength for astral combat.

[Moon-Hawk]

Would the nutrition spell alleviate the need for metahuman flesh for a ghoul spellcaster? (or maybe for an adept with the not-quite-official knack power)

[Nikoli]

I would say it would stave off the effects of hunger for the ghoul but not the feeling, in otherwords, while they aren't becoming more gaunt and ugly, they sure as heck feel like they haven't eaten in a while.

[Moon-Hawk]

Right. Before it starts, I want to say don't confuse Nutrition and Fast. Nutrition gives you the nutrients you need, but you still feel hungry unless you eat something (nutritious or not). Fast removes feelings of hunger but provides no nutritional value.

[Herald of Verjig...]

The best thing about nutrition and fast are that at force 1, they provide you with at least one day's effect any time you cast it. You don't need more than a minute to make each effect remain, and since each lasts (successes+force)*12 hours, you don't need to cast it very often.

[Shockwave_IIc]

[Fortune]

I'm not too sure about that. Doesn't it specifically state that the Spirit must manifest to use that Power? I'm pretty sure it doesn't state things in the same manner as it does for spells (ie. present on same plane).