strange spell design question, (for an adept, no less!) Options

[Req]

So one of the adepts in my group really wants something that's sort of like Killing Hands, but related to electricity and good for frying electrical stuff, glitching cyberware, etc etc. She's as not-munchkin as possible, and it really fits in with the character concept, so even though there's nuttin' in the rules supporting her, I want to work this out. I'm right on the edge of just coming up with something and calling it good, but I figured I'd solicit for opinions first.

We're thinking of working with the semi-official Knack adept power and generating a restricted-target, range-touch elemental manipulation spell. Spell design rules in MitS seem to imply that purchasing a version of Lightning Bolt that's touch range, restricted target: electronics would be at a drain level of (Damage Level -1). That's peachy. But I can't seem to figure out how that spell would work.

I know that combat spells against objects use the object resistance table for TN (SR3 P182), where elemental manipulations use a base of 4. Damaging manipulations don't appear to have a Threshold. Does that mean that Lightning Touch: Electronics always rolls against a 4 and doesn't ever get opposed in any way? If not, where is the reference to the object resistance table? It does seem clear that non-living non-magical targets don't get to make Resistance Tests...

If this is all true, a Force 1 Lightning Touch:Electronics (D) spell would kill any electronic device in a single unopposed test. Coming from an adept (who purchased this at 1power point) there's no drain on this thing... Kinda burly.

Also, any other suggestions for how to handle this sort of ability would be greatly appreciated.

Finally - yes, I know most things use optical components. :)

[toturi]

Get the PC to take Killing Hands and add Elemental Damage. Which book was it that had monks with Killing Hands + Fire?

[Req]

It was Brainscan. SOTA:2064 adds the "Elemental Effect" modifier to Killing Hands for .5 Power Points.

The thing is, that's all too powerful, the PC wants something more specific. And hence more affordable; this is an existing character adding powers at initiation, not a new char.

[Jason Farlander]

SOTA64 has an elemental strike power. It requires that the adept already knows killing hands. With a simple action, the adept can surround his hands in an elemental aura, which adds elemental secondary effects to subsequent attacks. The specific element is chosen when the power is purchased - presumably, the power could be taken multiple times for multiple elements, but I dont think I'd allow more than one element to be active at any given time.

Oh, and the monks with the firey killing hands were in Brainscan.

[Kanada Ten]

Brainscan I think had the monks with Fire Hands and it seems that SotA64 has an Elemental adept power. I think that the Power Point cost was Killing Hands cost + .5 PP. So the elemental effect of Lightning added to Killing Hands would work in the manner of a spell at the Force equal to the Adepts Magic. Combined with Distance Strike and zap!

[Herald of Verjig...]

How is a light killing hands with lightning secondary effect potential too powerful?

[Jason Farlander]

Ok, so you already knew that. If 0.5 PP is too expensive, I doubt you're going to design a knack thats cheaper. Dont forget that elemental spells have to have a force equal to or greater than 1/2 the object resistance, so you'd need a knack with an effective force of 4 or 5 to affect most things.

Edit: yay rapid sequence of redundant posts!

This post has been edited by Jason Farlander: Oct 23 2004, 03:20 AM

[Kanada Ten]

[Req]

Killing Hands Light with Lightning does nothing. MitS p51-52; if the spell causes light damage there is no secondary effect. If the spell causes Moderate, object resistance gets a +4 bonus, meaning cyberware and computers cannot be affected. If the spell causes serious there's a +2...still pretty much impossible. It takes a Deadly to give even a reasonable chance of breaking something.

[toturi]

You could take Killing Hands: Serious and go Full Offense. You can be fairly certain the computer will not jump up and get into a defensive stance.

[Kanada Ten]

[Req]

[Cain]

[mfb]

can't geas powers 0.5pp or less, unless my math is mistaken.

[Jason Farlander]

[Cain]

Sure you can; it just doesn't do you much good, normally. However, if you bundle it with it's prerequisite power, Killing Hands, then a generous GM can apply the beasa benefit to both powers as one package.

[mfb]

well, okay. i'll rephrase. "i'm enough of a min-maxer that there's no way i'd geas a power with 0.5pp or less cost, since i get no game benefit."

[Fortune]

[Req]

These are all certainly options. The only concern is that the adept in question is a gun adept, and is hence pretty much useless in melee. In fact, she don't even have a melee skill. So she spends her power point on Killing Hands L with the Elemental Strike option, and then she's defaulting. She's never going to get the successes to stage up damage to the point that the elemental strike will even count.

May have to have a limited-target version of Killing Hands that goes off Willpower, or something. And that gets a bit messy...

[mfb]

eh, if you're gonna go that far, may as well just stick with your original idea of using the Knack power.

[Req]

yeah, that's what I'm starting to think. Killing Hands + Elemental Strike doesn't seem to do it for her - plus in order to have a reasonable chance of breaking the device, she'd need to inflict D damage...and thus it would already be broken, and the elemental effect don't matter.

regardless, I think this is going to end up as House Rule City.