 Smartlinks: Is the bonus just too good? |
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 Oct 24 2004, 01:37 AM
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#26
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Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587  |
Saying other TN modifiers counter it is wrong. Compare with and without the smart link in every set of circumstances. There is only 2 times when the SL s not worth it. Long rang with magnification and an improve aim spell with a sustaining focus (much more expensive than SL2 and geasa).
That said an awakened character with a willingness to abuse the geasa rules is quite capable of becoming a full street sam with no efective loss of magic. Edward |
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Oct 24 2004, 03:52 AM
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#27
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
The GM imposes the geas? I didn't know that. In any case, I don't see the problem with having 5 PPs intead of 6. I mean, you're telling me that 1 PP is going to make a huge difference? Let's see... 5 power points 5 levels of improved rifles (2.5) Improved Reflexes Level 1 (2) Thermo vision (.25) Flare dampening (.25) Not too shabby with the smartlink, if you ask me. You have your super zen rifleman. In fact, if you wanted to specialize in being a lethal sniper, you could even axe the Improved Reflexes I and get vision mods or something else instead. Let the rest of the party act first, and then keep your 11 base dice and -2 TN in reserve for picking off whomever seems to be a hard case at the end of the combat turn. In fact, I don't even see why being a "one trick pony" is so bad. The whole entire point of a physad is to super specialize in one thing and be absolutely lethal with that. A physad who wastes his points getting all kinds of unrelated powers is a crappy physad indeed. That's why most of the physad powers in MITS were stupid. I mean, that's why I like making physads. Because I just pick one area of specialty and build around it. I don't have to kiill my brain looking through an entire sourcebook and picking a million different pieces of cyberware. |
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Oct 24 2004, 04:34 AM
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#28
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
It isn't, as long as your trick is on display. Backup that sniping skill with some negotiations, and an interest in all the ovecrpowering social adept traits, and you now have a sniper-face. If the enemy can see him and isn't shooting yet, he may get you past without any shooting. If the enemy is shooting but can't see him, then they die. |
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Oct 24 2004, 04:54 AM
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#29
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Target Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 850 |
Actually, my problem wasn't that Smartlink gunners hit stationary targets at high noon who are standing in the open easier.
No problems with that. The significant change at certain break points, however, gives me pause ... Dropping a 10 to an 8, for example, is a pretty big one. A modification that's so massively altering that is also well-nigh free in terms of cash or Essence is a bit ... scary. The old rule of thumb for eyeballing things needing a change was always this: Does nearly everyone have this thing? How many non-magicians do you see without them in the normal Shadowrun team? Heck, how many *Magicians* (Adepts included) wind up with one? Watching the SmartLink turn difficult shots into simple ones and nigh-impossible ones into 'Looks like I have to use some combat pool after all' was a bit ... bothersome ... for me. Has anyone ever attempted any other variant? I'm hardly thinking that my 2 dice replacemet is the perfect solution, but, I don't know if anyone else has ever been at all curious. Lastly, for a poster a page back, there was a note that Adepts could get the same abilities as a Smartgun Link now? Where's that from, if I may? -- Reb |
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Oct 24 2004, 05:32 AM
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#30
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
it's not quite the same benefit, but it's sorta close. there's an adept power in SOTA:64 that turn dropping clips and changing fire modes into free actions, an adept power that gives you two free actions per phase, and a metamagic that allows you to attune your weapon, giving you -1 TN (not compatible with cybernetic smartlinks). therefore, you can have a shooter adept with -2 TN (non-cyber smartlink or laser sight + attuning), who can drop clips and change fire modes as a free action.
that rule of thumb doesn't apply, when a piece of gear or other game item is intended to be ubiquitous. |
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Oct 24 2004, 08:20 AM
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#31
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Target Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,544 |
Neither did I, and I'm a GM. This is either a house rule, or a false assumption on his part. I've never seen anything to suggest it. |
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Oct 24 2004, 08:31 AM
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#32
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
No, sadly, it's right at the top of the adepts & geasa section in Magic in the Shadows. It's horribly inconsistant with the rest of the rules and I don't know any good GMs that enforce it.
Why they haven't corrected it in errata (it's just a matter of changing the word "gamemaster" to "player") is beyond me. |
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Oct 24 2004, 08:34 AM
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#33
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
it is neither.
edit: and, yeah, i agree with Funk, concerning its place in the rules. |
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Oct 24 2004, 08:40 AM
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#34
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Target Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,544 |
I read that and knew it was there, but I never even considered that it might mean that the GM chooses which geas, just whether there would be one. That's like the GM getting to choose the characters gender, after the start of play. |
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Oct 24 2004, 08:47 AM
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#35
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
*snort*, try imposing the geas on one of my players and see how long that player stuck around. Any of them would (justifiably, imho) see that as unwarranted GM intrusion into their character. Being told "that geas is not acceptable - choose again" (eg, When Awake) they would accept; being told "You can only use your pistols in a building" they would not.
How much does the adept bonding power (the -1TN one) cost? Or to put it another way, is it as good a deal as getting a smartlink? I only ask because you can fit a lot of utility cyber into 0.5 essence (eg: cybereyes with flare comp, lowlight, elec mag 3 and something like a display link plus alphaware cyberears with hearing amp, select sound and a dampener). Hell, that's 1.5 PP's of Improved Senses right there (all right, not the vision mag, but you take my point). |
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Oct 24 2004, 09:01 AM
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#36
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
You're preaching to the choir, man. |
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Oct 24 2004, 10:01 AM
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#37
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Just to remind people, Adepts don't even *have* to spring for smartlink cyberware. They can, in fact, get a smartlinked gun and smartgoggles.
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Oct 24 2004, 10:07 AM
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#38
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
At which point they only get a -1 TN bonus and only a precious few of the other perks a smartgun offers. Better off with a laser sight.
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Oct 24 2004, 11:06 AM
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#39
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Except the Smartlink doesn't have a maximum range for effectiveness, and won't alert targets to its' presence.
Still, I offer it only as a suggestion, not as a universal panacea. |
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Oct 24 2004, 01:51 PM
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#40
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Attunement (Item) is a Metamagic which grants the Adept a -1 per 2 levels of Initiation (round up) to TNs when using that specific item. |
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Oct 24 2004, 04:40 PM
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#41
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
uh, whoah. my copy of SOTA:64 says it's a flat -1 TN. i may be stealing your copy, though, if it says that.
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Oct 24 2004, 04:45 PM
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#42
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I am actually a loss as to where I got that from. It seriously must have been wishful thinking, as it is nothing like the Attunement power at all. :eek: :(
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Oct 24 2004, 06:20 PM
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#43
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
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Oct 24 2004, 10:47 PM
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#44
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
That could be the post hand-of-god punishment. The player does something stupid, gets his character killed, but then decides to cheat death with HOG.
So the GM decides that the player was horribly mutilated in the crotch area and under the circumstances was rushed to the nearest shady street surgeon. The problem is that the street doc has this weird fetish.... So the male character is now surgically female. :rotfl: |
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Oct 25 2004, 09:53 AM
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#45
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Loughborough, UK Member No.: 1,321 |
Where Smartlinks are concerned, it's worth noting just how their benefits fall off with range. Because of the way they affect your target numbers, they can vastly improve your short-to-medium range performance but don't provide as much of a bonus at long and extreme ranges as, say a Mag-3 scope and an extended laser sight (assuming you're shooting at night with lowlight so the ELS will reach your target). Hence while Smartlinks are the CQB-bunny's best friend, your average sniper is more likely to use a scope and an action or two of aiming.
There's also the other way of looking at 'em- personal preference. One of my characters has a set of smartgoggles built into her armour but refuses to use them as she doesn't like letting the processor do her aiming for her. GMs also take note- the most effective way around Smartlinked Adept Gun-kata ambidextrous custom-Thunderbolt-wielding killing machines is to simply outrange 'em. No huge minuses to TNs and huge amounts of dice are going to help them if their weapons can't reach the target. -JH. |
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Oct 25 2004, 12:11 PM
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#46
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Not so much for a Smartlink II with a rangefinder eye mod. |
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Oct 25 2004, 12:16 PM
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#47
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
I think you need a Rangefinder module for the SL II and a Rangefinder proper for it to work.
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Oct 25 2004, 12:23 PM
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#48
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
You just need the Rangefinder cyberware and a SL-2 equipped weapon, there's nothing in the rules that says you need anything else. |
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Oct 25 2004, 12:30 PM
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#49
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Man and Machine Errata Version 2.0 Date: 8/26/2003
Quite clearly you need both Rangefinders. |
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Oct 25 2004, 01:23 PM
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#50
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Hmm... Well, that's an idiotic piece of errata, then. I always figured the SL-2 rangefinder component was an eye mod interfacing with the SL-2 that worked with any SL-2 equipped gun you were holding. If you need to have a rangefinder on the weapon too, what the hell is the extra .1 Essence you spend on the cyberware for? It's a rangefinder, not a fucking battle computer. What, the SL processor can't hold a few extra lines of code? Who designed this thing, the Soviet army? Ah, that wonderful 80's feel of SR technology - when laser sights were as big as the gun they attached to, cell phones were the size of a brick, and computer memory actually took up space. |
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