Smartlinks: Is the bonus just too good? Options

[tjn]

[Kagetenshi]

The laser sight has the massive disadvantage of being visible at the target, and in the air if there are sufficient reflective particles.

~J

[tjn]

While it's not exactly canon, an IR laser with IR imaging slapped onto the vis mod combats the usual disadvantage.

[Kagetenshi]

Still doesn't if there's a Troll, Dwarf, or person with the proper eyemods in the area.

~J

[Jason Farlander]

I continue to maintain that if the SL2 simply cost 0.6 essence/4500: nuyen: and included compatability with an external rangefinder, no one would be complaining about how retarded it is that it costs what it does.

Furthermore, I submit that, if they had presented it as I mentioned above, and allowed you could get a discount of 0.1 essence/1000 :nuyen: on the standard SL2 package by excluding the rangefinder processing capabilities, you would also not complain about how retarded it was that there existed an excludeable rangefinder processor. The only difference is how they chose to present what is essentially an identical situation.

[Kremlin KOA]

Jason I would so you are wrong there.

Some of us played avidly in second edition and back ten in the Cybertechnology sourcebook the rangefinder was an eye mod so there is CANON support for such an interpretation so you are wrong there

calm down

[toturi]

But that Rangefinder was a rangefinder, not a SL II rangefinder mod. :D

[Fortune]

I don't have a problem with the extra Essence cost of the Rangefinder. My problem is the need for an extrenal, gun-mounted module if one is already implanted. In my opinion, it would make more sense to be one or the other. To gain the benefits, a character has the option of either implanting the Rangefinder as a Smartlink add-on, or having one installed as an external component to his weapon(s).

[Herald of Verjig...]

Would you prefer the cyberware referred to as "extended physics co-processor for smartlink systems"?

[Fortune]

I don't see much real work on the part of the SL processor for it to incorporate the calculations necessary for Rangefinder integration on top of its normal function. The Rangefinder itself is where the redundancy comes in. I believe (and indeed house-rule) that it is only necessary to have one device that acts as the Rangefinder, whether that is implanted or a gun-mod.

[Kremlin KOA]

My biggest problem with this is simply gasme balance as for 0.6 essence I can have 2/3/4/4 without the need for funky rangefinder modifications to my gun that use up a gun slot

2/3/3/5 is not really much better than 2/3/4/4 and if I choose to go with a colt manhunter it is realy 2/3/3/3.5 (3 out to half of extreme range 4 for the rest) in day and 2/3/3/3 at night this makes the SL2 rangefinder deal underpowered compared to a SL1 and electronic mag 3 per essence (I realize the implants cost more but you get that back over time by much cheaper gun mods,
eg manhunter + SL1 = :nuyen: 850
manhunter + SL2 + rangefinder = :nuyen: 1212.5

that's :nuyen:362.5 extra per for the CHEAPEST gun option if you are going for SMGs or most rifles (alpha notwithstanding) the price difference rises dramatically.

now the SL1 + elec mag 3 is :nuyen: 13,500 and the SL2 + rangefinder costs :nuyen: 5,500 that makes a difference of :nuyen: 8000.

that's 22-23 guns in your career before the cost evens out in cash. add to this the fact that the rig I showed is compatible with more of the guns that can be grabbed off a downed corp sec guard and you realize that with the both required ruling thr rangefinder is effectively worthless

and that ignores the guy who just goes laser sigt and electronig mag 3 for 3/3/3/3.5 or the adept with the same and attunement for 2/2/2/2.5

smartlink doesn't seem so bad now, does it? main reason i take smartlink for my sammy chars is coolness factor

[Fortune]

Um...Vision Magnification and Smartlinks are incompatible.

[Kremlin KOA]

yes but one can have both and it is a free action to choose which one is using for the shot

[mfb]

not even a free action, actually. it's not an action at all; you just use one or the other.

[Kremlin KOA]

true, even easier than I thought

[Stumps]

[Canid13]

Kremlin, I'm intruigued where you got your numbers from?? With Vis Mag 3 your TN's to hit are 4/4/4/4. You can chose to use this instead of anything else you have, such as smartlink or smartlink 2, but those systems don't stack.

Lasers and, I'm assuming, the Adept power of attuning, will work with the Vis Mag but smartlink won't.

And to be honest, I have no problem with any of this. So what, it takes the Smartlink 2 a daughter board to process hyper accurate range data, and so what the standard issue sensory hardware within the gun can't give that kind of info.

I take a very GM orientated view of things - what's good for the goose is good for the gander. My players have realised that they've got a 2/3/3/5 progression for shots - as does any NPC who's gonna have a smartlink installed since the essence cost and nuyen cost to go from smartlink 1 to smartlink 2 with rangefinder is negligible.

[toturi]

With the difference b/w a SL 1 and SL 2 + rangefinder being 3000 :nuyen: then it would make sense not to get that SL 2 + RF. 3000 may not seem a big deal, but it is a month's pay for a LS street officer. If you start having NPCs all having that, it is really going test the suspension of disbelief.

It is ok if the Agents and Neo can dodge bullets, but when everyone is an Agent really tests my patience.

[Stumps]

[Kremlin KOA]

okay canid in short you may have both vision mag and SL systems installed but you may not benefit from both at the same time

hence if you have vis mag three and a smartlink your tns are

short range: I'll go with a smartlink at this range TN2
Medium range: smartlink still better here TN 3
Long range: much of a muchness TN 4
Extreme range, well now I'm better off with vision mag TN 4

hence 2/3/4/4
now add a laser sight (ala colt manhunter) and we have
short range go with the smartlink TN2
medium range, much of a muchness TN 3
long range, go with the vis mag and LS TN 3
extreme range go with the vis mag and LS tn 3 or 4 if further than 50m and daylight

the laser sight + vis mag and LS + attuning + vis mag should be easier to understand

[Stumps]

I think the reason that SL's give a -2TN instead of +2D6 was because the old Specializations gave a +2D6.

Let's pretend that the original rule was SL's give +2D6 and that we're playing 2nd Edition SR.
If you Specialized in a Pred III and used an SL, you'd have a total of 10D6 to roll with a Pred III before you even used Combat Pool Dice.

So I think that's why it was a -2TN originally.

On the other hand,
They've gotten rid of the third branch of skills so you can't get 8D6 off of Specializing anymore.

With that removal, it would seem that making SL's +2D6 in 3rd Ed. SR an ok prospect, but not a good prospect at all in any 2nd Ed. SR game as well as making any Character Conversions between the two Editions a bit more difficult.

But as a house rule, sounds good.

[Kremlin KOA]

honestly at that point I start taking my LS combo above as it is a better choice than the SL if the house rule comes in

[Stumps]

I think that's Johnny's point....The SL is perfectly stealthy....the Laser Site may or may not be depending on things.

[Kremlin KOA]

[Canid13]

SOTA 64 talks about Lone Star giving discounts on cyberware, but either way, I quantified my statement - if an NPC's gonna have Smartlink in the first place then I see no reason why they wouldn't have smartlink 2. Okay, rangefinders are a little more on the iffy side, but for the most part only SWAT level sec goons have Smartlink in my games, and those guys will definately not be worried by an extra couple of k. Other than that, well that's what smart googles are for....

Hmm, I wonder if the rangefinder will work with smart 2 goggles... doesn't say it won't, though probably have to add a little cost to it for the rangefinder proc.

Kremlin: cool, didn't realise you'd included both sets of mods when they can be gotten.