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 Stun Baton and Shock Gloves |
 Oct 29 2004, 12:37 AM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 334 Joined: 17-November 03 From: Texas Member No.: 5,828  |
WTH? Assuming that there are no other mods than the troll w/stun baton and riot shield facing unarmed human, the TN's are: Troll:4 Human:6 OR Troll:6 Human:8 They both have a base TN of 4, each one gets +2 for the riot shield. Then the troll can either add his reach to the human's TN, or subtract his reach from his own TN. I can only assume that you: 1) ignored the +2 that each combatant receives from the shield and 2) incorrectly applied both the + and - mod for reach. Either way, the 2 points of reach are the only differences in TN. Personally, were I playing the troll, I would take the -2 mod to my own TN, so that I can crush my opponent in a wave of 4's. |
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Oct 29 2004, 02:58 AM
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#52
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Anyone with reach of 2 or more can ignore the shield penalty (BBB, p 284). The troll remains at a base of 4, while the opposition is raised to a 6. Should the troll use his reach to lower his TN to 2, he'll crush his opposition.
And Friends in Melee isn't a big help, either; since that caps out at +4, they'll tie at a TN of 6. Given that said troll probably has a huge skill, and the unarmed humans probably don't, the crowd is going to be cleared the hard way. If you want to get really nasty with this combo, have the troll take Off Hand Clubs with a specialization in Riot Shields. That's a potential 9 or 10 dice to start with, with skill alone. It can get much worse from there. |
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Oct 29 2004, 05:10 AM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 6,736 |
Don't forget the other riot cops. I didn't figure in the friends in melee since they should both be maxed out in that particular situation, and would cancel out.
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Oct 29 2004, 06:52 AM
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#54
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 2-August 04 From: South Africa Member No.: 6,531 |
This is the one of the points that have a problem with. Human with stun baton doesn't get reach bonus. Troll with stun baton get a +1 Reach bonus. |
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Oct 29 2004, 06:56 AM
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#55
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 2-August 04 From: South Africa Member No.: 6,531 |
That is very true. The fact that your impact armour is halved for stun. |
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Oct 29 2004, 07:06 AM
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#56
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 2-August 04 From: South Africa Member No.: 6,531 |
Let look at this closely. wuth reach rules in SR3 pg 121. Troll -- Stun Baton and Riot Shield Human-- Stun Baton and riot shield. Eg TN for Troll standard 4 Riot shield +2 Reach -1 (easier to hit) Final TN 5 TN for Human Standard 4 Riot Shield +2 Final TN 6 Please not that the reach for the troll is 1 point superior to the human. There fore the troll gets to modify TN by that 1 point.
According to the rules you only get the -1. The difference between the reach modifiers. |
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Oct 29 2004, 07:12 AM
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#57
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 2-August 04 From: South Africa Member No.: 6,531 |
Okay I don't have BBB. So let look in context. Yet again SR3 page 121 Troll STD 4 Riot Shied - 0 (ignored because of reach of +2 Natural and Stun Baton) Reach -1 final TN 3 Human STD 4 Riot shield +2 (not ignored due to reach +1 Stun baton) Final TN 6 |
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Oct 29 2004, 07:17 AM
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#58
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 2-August 04 From: South Africa Member No.: 6,531 |
With what I have siad above a troll could have 4 human opponents and have the same TN as the humans As the troll would be surrounded by 3 extra human as the target number increase for the troll by 3 1 for every enemy beyond the first. "So to say a troll riot squad is going to hurt the crowd pritty bad" |
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Oct 29 2004, 07:21 AM
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#59
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Err, just so you know, BBB is the (lame) Dumpshock shorthand for the SR3 sourcebook. Why they still use it is beyond me. The proper and significantly less confusing shorthand is, not surprisingly, SR3 like you used. |
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Oct 29 2004, 08:10 AM
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#60
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
BBB is lame. I think some use it because it makes them feel superior because they are part of an exclusive group that uses a codeword for the most basic book in the game. It keeps people who don't know the codeword on the outside of their exclusive group.
I post on Dumpshock in order to communicate with people, and using abbreviations that interfere with the communication goes against what I'm trying to do. Dr. Funk, I applaud you for saying it's lame. |
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Oct 29 2004, 09:38 AM
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#61
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 2-August 04 From: South Africa Member No.: 6,531 |
Well BBB (I have not read it). I will take your point that it is lame.
Here I am trying to get a SR3 point of view. Not a BBB point of view. Doc and Ourteam, thank you for the advice that it is a Short Hand of SR3. |
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Oct 29 2004, 10:23 AM
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#62
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
*slaps self* ok, Johnson...he was saying that BBB=SR3. SR3=BBB. SR3 is shorthand for the Shadowrun 3rd Edition Core Rule Book BBB is shorhand for Big Black Book (which the Shadowrun 3rd Edition Core Rule Book is Big, Black and a Book.) BBB and SR3 are the same book. When Doc said that the BBB was lame, what he meant was that the abreviation (actually an acronym) "BBB" was lame...he wasn't saying that the book was lame because if he were to say that the book was lame while refering to the BBB he would be saying that the SR3 is lame. Follow? And personally...I've always wanted to make a BBB of rules made here on DSF and call that the (un)official BBB. And the other part of me has always wanted to make a Satyrical Core Rule book for SR based on silly stuff that goes on here at DSF and call it: BBB, The DSFSRHGCCOSSFODSF (The Dumpshock Forums Shadowrun Holy Grail Canon Companion of Stupid Shit Found On Dumpshock Forums) The other working idea for the title is... BBB, or "How to have your own AVS, Dikoted, Ally Spirit Sex" |
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Oct 29 2004, 10:40 AM
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#63
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 2-August 04 From: South Africa Member No.: 6,531 |
Stumps, thank you for the clear up I appreciate it. I have only been on DSF for 3 months, still getting used to the acronyms.
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Oct 29 2004, 11:32 AM
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#64
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
Ignore BBB. It's silly.
Mainly because at this point there are 3 Shadowrun Core Rule Books and "BBB" only refers to "The" core rule book. Which lets me know nothing of which version you are playing between (most likely) Edition 2 and Edition 3. Besides...the Bible is also Big, Black, and a Book, so... |
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Oct 29 2004, 11:44 AM
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#65
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
At least some use it because they're nigh-terminally lazy, and typing BBB involves a lot less movement than SR3. Hell, with SR3 you even have to take your finger off the shift key mid-word. How lame is that? ;) ~J |
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Oct 29 2004, 11:53 AM
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#66
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
ROTFL
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Oct 29 2004, 03:25 PM
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#67
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 214 Joined: 7-January 03 From: Wilton NH Member No.: 3,872 |
And some of us use it because it helps promote the atmosphere of running the shadows, and using slang where we don't have too... OR We just use it because someone else used it and little did they realize that the Meme for BBB is actually a viral construct and is the holy grail of the marketing world.... or maybe that was transhuman space.... Hmm... I honestly don't think that the folks here who use BBB are trying to maintain exclusivity or fluff their ego's with an acronym... more than likely someone used it in regards to a topic of theirs and it was explained to them, and it just caught on. M'kay... drugs are bad! Don't be overly paranoid.... dumpshock is your friend.... :D |
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Nov 1 2004, 07:39 AM
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#68
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 2-August 04 From: South Africa Member No.: 6,531 |
Why some use BBB and some use SR3. I would find SR3 more practical.
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Nov 1 2004, 07:41 AM
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#69
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
It is. It's also what the books themselves use.
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Nov 1 2004, 12:20 PM
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#70
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
ROTFLMAO!!
You mean SR3 is CANON but no one around here** want's to use the CANON acronym?? How ironic :rotfl: **(not everyone...remember...this is a joke) |
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Nov 1 2004, 01:19 PM
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#71
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
BBB has been the unofficial acronym of the current Shadowrun Core Rulebook since the First Edition, when it stood for Big Blue Book (SR1 would have been a bit presumptuous ;)). It came about with the inception of the ShadowRN and ShadowTK email lists and the various Usenet newsgroups, before even Deep Resonance existed.
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Nov 1 2004, 01:37 PM
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#72
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
I prefer BBB. Maybe it's because I'm used to warhammer (it's the BRB there... big red book), but BBB makes sense to me as the core rulebook. It's not that I'm snooty, I just like it.
JaronK |
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Nov 1 2004, 01:48 PM
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#73
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 541 Joined: 2-August 04 From: South Africa Member No.: 6,531 |
So when somebody say BBB it combines SR1 SR2 and SR3. I would say SR3 is mor logical. As BBB could mean SR 1 to 3.
The WHFB is BRB and 40K FKRB. |
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Nov 1 2004, 01:51 PM
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#74
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Not really. BBB means the current core rulebook. Everyone can reasonably assume as much. If you want to do an out of date edition, you'd specify... just like if I say "let's go back to the house" to my housemate, we can both assume I meant our house... if I meant another house, I'd specify.
JaronK |
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Nov 1 2004, 02:08 PM
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#75
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
When I use BBB, I mean the Shadowrun 3rd Edition rulebook. When I use SR3, I use it to contrast the editions.
SR3 to me means the whole SR 3rd Ed rules, not just the core rulebook(although it is Canon :D ) I like to keep both terms seperate. |
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