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 Lone Star, Garden variety fuzz or throwbacks? |
 Nov 1 2004, 08:35 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 292 Joined: 24-September 04 Member No.: 6,701  |
If they can't tell the diff between a bite from a wolf and a roach, then their labs suck. The Mark-1 eyeball can make that distinction. They'd be lucky to ever solve a crime that doesn't drop into their laps. As for the bounties, I admit that our new runners that made the drop-off might face that charge of non-permit bounty-hunting, but given that the people they dropped off were cop killers, I'd think that the Lone Star officers would have other things on their minds than pursuing petty charges like this. EDIT: If they do pursue such petty charges in such a dictatorial manner, then they way they handle it is going to filter out onto the streets and they'll never get cooperation from the streets ever again. The next time a cop goes down, no runner will bother pursuing the killers because they know that delivering the killers means a stay in jail (and prob no reward). This post has been edited by LinaInverse: Nov 1 2004, 08:43 PM |
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Nov 1 2004, 09:20 PM
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#27
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
What SR book has stats on DNA re-mapping? I'm just curious, because that seems a little out of line for the capabilities of SR technology. (not to mention completely physically impossible)
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Nov 1 2004, 09:48 PM
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#28
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
Ya know, now that I think about it, DNA remapping isn't found anywhere - it came outta my head because I've been rereading the Bujold "Miles Vorkosigan" series. Please ignore that - it was just fingerprint replacement as part of the plastic surgery. |
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Nov 1 2004, 09:52 PM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 292 Joined: 24-September 04 Member No.: 6,701 |
Well, then any ambiguity goes out the window. The fake runners' DNA is going to be at the original crime scene and it's going to match the DNA on the 2 bodies/1 suspect. |
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Nov 1 2004, 10:02 PM
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#30
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
You do realize how much "DNA" would be at a public place? They were gunned down outside in a parking lot. Not much to go on, frankly. Eh, it really all comes down to what kind of resources does Lone Star have that would be equiv to a CSI lab?
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Nov 1 2004, 10:08 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 292 Joined: 24-September 04 Member No.: 6,701 |
Umm...one of them (Roy) beat the cops up in close-quarters combat. Very tough not to leave at least a trace there. For Ralph and Slick, yeah, OK, not much to go on there. But there are the smashed Drones that match the assault at the cemetary.
EDIT: You're right in that it depends on what resources Lone Star has in its forensics team. I don't know that; perhaps someone else here does, based on canon. I do believe though that, if they have any credible lab resources at all, they would put them to use to solve this crime that they would (understandably) want solved as quick as possible. |
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Nov 1 2004, 11:47 PM
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#32
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
I'd say that canon doesn't really have much to do with this. It all depends on how the GM wants to use this in regards to the players. Despite their clever plans, the bad guys got caught and turned over to the Star. If this brings the adventure more or less to a close, I see no reason why the innocent runners shouldn't get the reward, and get their records cleared of the charge.
If however, being under pressure from LS is going to be part of a continuing campaign, then for whatever reason, things don't pan out that easily. However, in my game I'd say it's reasonable to assume that Lonestar has its own competent forensic lab, and in a case like this would be able to verify the story (and evidence) supplied to them in a reasonable time frame. |
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Nov 1 2004, 11:56 PM
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#33
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
And would be very motivated to do so properly. Cops are cops, whether corporate or not, and cop-killers are hated.
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Nov 2 2004, 01:41 AM
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#34
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Target Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 24-August 04 From: Swamps of south Georgia Member No.: 6,593 |
absolutely agree, remember Blade Runner "You know the score pal, your not cop your little people." |
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Nov 2 2004, 06:00 AM
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#35
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Target Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Georgia Member No.: 1,112 |
I would also submit that not only does LS have a compitent forensics-investigation department, they have a magical forensics investigation department.
As for the law, although I would agree that the UCAS and US wouldn't have the exact same constituation, I would suspect that many of it's amendments would be in there somewhere, even if they have different numbers. As for Mindprobe, I would guess that if an officer is legally "certified" to use Mindprobe on a subject, then the evidence would be submisable. granted if it goes to trial, the officer's certification may be put to the test on the witness stand, but as long as the court upholds that the certification is valid, so too is any evidence. I kinda think of it like a traffic officer today running RADAR to see if you're speeding. By the current arguement, it's just "hearsay" when an officers says "that machine said you was speeding". |
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Nov 2 2004, 06:09 AM
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#36
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
Or it might be like a lie detector, the results are generally not admissable in court, but if the cops have poor ol' Roy grilled while under a truth verification spell, and then run him through a questioning about just why there are people claiming his friends aren't really who they say they are... If the explanation that the runners had the third party give the Star hold out, then I'd say they're in the free and clear (plus whatever other evidence pertaining to their innocense has come up).
I'd say that the mage running the magic would be treated the same way as whoever examines the results of a lie detector test. That they be truthful about the matter is expected, and if they lie then they're in for a world of hurting. |
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Nov 2 2004, 06:09 AM
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#37
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
It is specifically stated that evidence from mindprobe is not admissible in UCAS courts. Whether or not it can be used as part of an investigation is a matter of conjecture.
~J |
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Nov 2 2004, 06:18 AM
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#38
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
MitS says it cannot be used to produce any evidence.
MitS p. 11, The Law: "Because the UCAS and CAS retain major elements of the U.S. Bill of Rights in their legal systems, magical methods such as mind probe and aura reading cannot be used to produce evidence, as this violates the Fifth Amendment prohibition against self-incrimination. However, reading astral signatures has achieved the same status as fingerprinting or DNA testing in forensic science." According to that, mind probe and similar spells cannot be used to produce *any* evidence whatsoever; doesn't matter if it's for a court case or as part of an investigation. As I stated before, it's closer to using torture to forcefully obtain a confession or learn information about a suspect. |
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Nov 2 2004, 06:24 AM
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#39
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
I suppose that Mind Probe would be out due to the intrusiveness, but I don't see any problem with analyze truth or aura reading, since there is no evidence being generated.
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Nov 2 2004, 07:32 AM
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#40
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
you don't, but then, you're not a citizen who has been suddenly and violently thrust into a world where magic exists. it's only been 50 years since the Awakening; that's not a lot of time to produce enough solid data about magic to fit it into the law. i'm kinda surprised that it's been integrated to the degree which it has, to be honest.
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Nov 2 2004, 07:32 AM
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#41
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
Fortunately for my runners, due to the damage done by insect spirits, and their own stunbolt (cast at Deadly, staged up to Deadly +1, and he was one box short of Deadly physical) Lone Star won't be able to get anything intelligible until Roy comes out of his coma. (i.e. a month)
Why fortunately? Because that means that they'll be able to track down the Johnson before the cops will. :) Well...at least the ones who didn't go to Lone Star. :vegm: Edit: Thanks everyone for your input. You can now go back to debating the merits of magical interrogation in legal theory. *grin* |
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Nov 3 2004, 03:39 AM
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#42
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Target Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Georgia Member No.: 1,112 |
Although I would argue that a mindprobe isn't anymore self-incriminating than the defendant having a video tape of his crime inside his house, I won't go against canon.
Just another "dumb law" that's keeping the cops from doing their job... :) |
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Nov 3 2004, 03:45 AM
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#43
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Any law that restricts any cop who considers that a part of his or her job is fine by me.
~J |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Nov 3 2004, 05:56 AM
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#44
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Guests |
How many times do I have to tell you: The Fifth Amendment does not apply to the states in the UCAS. The states might have their own, but they just as likely may not consider Mindprobe violative (and it's a lot easier to get state constitutions amended if the public really wanted it).
The FBI can't Mindprobe you. Lone Star... might. |
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Nov 3 2004, 06:09 AM
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#45
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
And I say they can, as long as they don't use it for evidence, or they get your permission. :)
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Nov 3 2004, 06:13 AM
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#46
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I believe that SOTA63 had info about DNA masking. |
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Nov 3 2004, 06:20 AM
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#47
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
If individual states had varying laws regarding it, that would definitely have been mentioned. No such exception is even remotely hinted at in MitS, and even if it did those few states would be the very rare exception, not the standard based upon the context alone. Hell, as far as we know there aren't individual state constitution. As you like to point out, the UCAS and CAS aren't the U.S. |
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