Confused on Combat Options

[SubMatrix]

Ok, I could just be getting the terminology severly mixed up but the more I read the more confused I'm getting. This is combat as I understand it:

Combat Turn - The largest "section" of combat. The entire battle is comprised of these which begin with rolling initiative and refreshing dice pools.

Initiative Pass - How many passes occur in a combat turn determined by who rolls the best initiative (if the highest initiative is 8, there is only one initiative pass in the turn, if the highest is 33, then there are 4 passes).

Combat Phase - The individual steps within each initiative pass (each pass contains 10 phases with exception to the lass pass which main contain less since combat phases cannot go below 1).

I thought I understood this and that this all made sense until I was reading in the New Seattle book. Where it is describing LoneStar response times it describes them in initiative pass, not combat turns. This is where my world begins to collapse. If this is the case as my understanding led me to believe then if a speed demon from hell managed to pull a 66 on initiative, then there would be 7 initiative passes, and because HE acted so fast, LoneStar would arrive quicker!

This made no sense to me, so I convinced myself that initiative passes must be combat turns, but then when rereading the core book combat section, it describes delaying action into the next initiative pass, but I know that you can't delay into the next combat turn, so my world crumbles some more.

I have a few more questions concerning this topic but I will wait to hear how it actually works before asking them.

[Backgammon]

No, the Lone Star arrival rules make no sense.

Furthermore, to continue tour confusion, take that speed demon with 66 that act 7 times. Say he fires 9 rounds of full auto every time. That 63 rounds.

Take a mage that acts once. He also holds down the trigger. Thats 9 rounds.

For the exact same 3 seconds, for having down the same action (holding down the trigger), gun A mysteriously fires 7 times faster than gun B.

So don't think too hard. Some things aren't meant to be reflected upon.

[Botch]

Not sure about the Lone Star reference, but combat goes like this.

a) Combat starts and time is now measured in 3 second "chunks".
b) Initiative is rolled
c) The fastest combatant starts on their intiative score (66 for your speed demon)
d) Once that initiative pass action has been carried out, 10 is subtracted from the original intiative score.
e) Now initiative counts down to zero with any combatant taking an action when the initiative counter reaches their initiative score.

So for Speed Demon (66 initiative), Acid King (17 initiative) and Tar Baby (8 initiative) it would go as.

First Action slot = 66 for SD
Second Action slot = 56 for SD (-10 from original)
Third Action Slot = 46 for SD
Fourth Action Slot = 36 for SD
Fifth Action Slot = 26 for SD
Sixth Action Slot = 17 for AK
Seventh Action Slot = 16 for SD
Eighth Action Slot = 8 for TB
Nineth Action Slot = 7 for AK
Tenth Action Slot = 6 for SD

All combat ends after the tenth slot as no combatants initiative score can have 10 subtracted without it being less than 0.

[mfb]

no, not quite. in SR3, everyone acts in turn, then you subtract ten and check to see who can go again. like this:

First Action slot = 66 for SD
Second Action slot = 17 for Acid King
Third Action Slot = 8 for Tar Baby
Fourth Action Slot = 56 for SD
Fifth Action Slot = 7 for AK
Sixth Action Slot = 46 for SD
Seventh Action Slot = 36 for SD
Eighth Action Slot = 26 for SD
Nineth Action Slot = 16 for SD
Tenth Action Slot = 6 for SD

[Ol' Scratch]

Yeah, you look to be using the older editions' version of Initiative, Botch. Or at least a variation thereof.

[Nikoli]

Botch, they changed that from 2nd to 3rd now its:
1st pass
SD:66
AK:17
TB:8

2nd pass
SD:56
AK:17
TB: Nothing

3rd Pass
SD:46
AK:7
TB: Nada

4th Pass
SD:36
AK: Nothing
TB: Still nothing

5th Pass
SD: 26
AK: Nope, not moving yet
TB: You guessed it

6th Pass
SD: 16
AK: Thumb twidling anyone
TB: Is probably considering making a SD himself

7th Pass
SD:6
AK: Bored Silly
TB: Is considering fetching coffee

I think they made this change inthe passes to allow mages and other non-speed freaks a chance to shoot before it's all dead.

[Critias]

Which is unfortunate. I never made a hard-core street sammie 'till SR3, so I missed my chance to burst into the room and kill everyone before they got to go!

Damn, damn, woe is me! Why did I waste all my SR1 games with deckers and mages?

[Slacker]

As far as the Lone Star rules in the New Seattle book go, the book says that the times are unrealistic. They are supposed to be used to limit the amount of collateral damage players can do.

As a GM, the only time I ever use those rules are when the players are being excessively violent and not even trying to hide it. Even then, I normally use combat rounds instead of initiative passes.

[Critias]

I'm not sure anyone really uses those rules, as written. Generally speaking, when I GM, I cut it a little easy on the players when it comes to police attention: loosely based on what part of town they're in and what they're doing that's so naughty, if they're genuinely trying to disentangle themselves from their current skirmish and get away before the cops arrive, I let them (they hop in their car as they hear sirens approaching).

If they dick around, of course, kid gloves are off and they get raped by men with badges. I just don't use any mathematical formula to determine how fast it starts.