[X] My Assistant

[toturi]

I was providing an example that for any nemesis, there is a counter PC. There was no counter-Thrawn during the just-post-ROTJ era but what if Luke wasn't a combat oriented Jedi but a Jedi general who used the Force to "foresee" the moves any enemy could make. Much like any dragon.

[Demonseed Elite]

A number of interesting answers here. Basically, as I read these boards, I see the SR players and GMs who love the Horrors/4th World stuff, and then I also see the players and GMs who would rather stick with relatively "down-to-earth" antagonists. So, I was specifically curious what these players and GMs use as these big antagonists without falling into the common trap of dragons, immortal elves, and Horrors.

[Ol' Scratch]

...and then you have those that like a healthy blend of both. It doesn't have to be a magic vs. non-magic thing.

[Demonseed Elite]

Nope, that's true, and that's why I included a few examples that aren't purely non-magical (like cyberzombies). Conspiracy groups and black ops teams can also use magic, but are not necessarily magical antagonists.

[DrJest]

[Herald of Verjig...]

[toturi]

How did a 2HD orc get so much gold? And why didn't the PCs have more? When I played D and D, we had so much gold we needed a pocket dimension to keep it. In fact we offer bribes by the barrel, and we weren't talking ale (learnt that from Althalus).

[Wounded Ronin]

Mutual fund investments. :rotfl:

[DrJest]

It worked like this, since you ask :) :

Once the orc picked himself up off the floor and realised what had happened, he spent some time tracking down who had done this to him. During the course of events, he came across the dungeons that the PC's had cleared out. Now, any veteran AD&D player knows that those dungeons are often littered with cash that it's not worth a player's time to pick up - mostly in the form of thousands of copper and silver pieces, or large statues worth loads of gold but too heavy to move. The orc initially went into dungeon clearing as a business; he hired some help, on a percentage basis at first then later as employees, and started clearing out the adventurers' leavings. He got really quite financially savvy during the process, and expanded into more "normal" lines of business, which increased his capital.

It amused the heck out of me that the party had, in essence, funded the orc's vendetta against them.

As for the players, well, I don't tend to run cash-rich adventures that much, and any player worth his salt has loads to spend his hard-earned gold on. Added to which, of course, did you miss the bit about tax collectors? ;) And wars against thieves guilds get expensive as well. No, draining cash out of the players was not an issue.

[toturi]

Huh? Didn't the PCs salt their cash off in tax free enclaves? Why didn't they hire movers to help them move the statues/silver/copper out? Why didn't they use the gold to put the whole country in their pocket? Why didn't they get one of their number as the chief embez... oops tax collecter? tsk tsk... :D

Any player worth his salt will have made the Dungeon Mas... the gods his puppets. :P

[DrJest]

Man, I gotta play in one of your games - you're waaaaay nicer to the players than I am :D Just try making the gods your puppets in one of my games... time for the Big Blue Bolt o' Doom ;)

In all seriousness, the average AD&D player tends to do the adventure and move on. If they can't pick it up and take it with them, it's of no interest to them. It's a trend I've noticed over the years, and this time I decided to make use of it. In fairness, they did have banking with the major merchant guilds of the kingdom, but in all honesty that just meant the tax collectors knew where to get their cash when they levied the 60% supertax on them. I feel no guilt, they'd missed the hints that their finances were under investigation ;)

[Stumps]

Really?
To tell you the truth. The biggest element that is the most often forgotten about as far as I've seen is the relative CSI departement of Lone Star.

You know how much evidence most SR parties leave behind at a scene??

[Ed Simons]

Yes, but Lone Star is a for-profit corporation. All that crime scene investigation takes time and money.

To use a real world example, a friend of mine was working in a convenience store when it was robbed. The only reason the police checked for prints at all was the criminal had pushed open the door with his bare hand against the glass and the glass had just been cleaned, so they knew any print would be of the robber and not of some random customer or employee.

And in spite of that, the police were unable to come up with a usable print.

Lone Star could check every surface for fingerprints, but they won't. It costs money and there's all the time they have to spend sorting through prints they find to try to determine if any of them belong to the runners. Of course, there's no guarantee any of the prints they find belong to the runners.

The same problem applies to all other forms of evidence. Lone Star could have a forensics mage check every scene for signs of astral signatures, but there's no guarantee that any astral signitures were left in the first place, or that they haven't faded before the forensics mage examines that part of the crime scene.

Of course, many runner's actions won't attract Lone Stars attention at all. Extra-terratorial corporate sites are not part of their coverage area. The Corp probably wouldn't tell Lone Star about it and Lone Star would have no right or reason to investigate the crime even if they heard about it.

[hyzmarca]

AI robots that kill people and wear their skin in order to blend into society. Good for creating paranoia.

[DarkShade]

good enemies?
gangers in your home turf, there are a zillion gangs in say seattle, since most runners live in gang controlled areas relationsips with the local gang and their enemies arise, they always make for nice runs where the `roleplay value`is high.

the star/KE is a threat more than an enemy, but an useful one, my players have always been terrified of swat teams.. with good reason.

media people with a grudge

organizations low in magic but high in influence like the humanis policlub make great recurring enemies.

the BEST enemy imho.. a drek hot decker with a grudge.. now that is someone who can really ruin your day.. if he is an otaku you can even knwo the guy and not be aware he is a decker at all.. :)

now and then more specialised forces, sparsely used, and it has always been my policy that players should feel the professionalism of the forces not just by their equipment but by tactics.
when you face 6 well armed men and see them all seeking separate cover while 4 of them set a suppressive fire on your area, then two start delaying actions to snipe at whoever comes out of cover while 2 fire suppressers start switching to grenades you just know you arent dealing with gangers.. and you know if you leave initiative up to them the chess game will end up with you captured or dead.

DS