[X] My Assistant

[Kanada Ten]

I've just realized while trying to articulate my feelings on intelligence and crime that I cannot adequately define serious crime, nor can I actually name the various things I require to label something as intelligent.

And youth, while having generally lower skills and attributes should be awarded lower karma costs or granted karma for simpler tasks...

[RedmondLarry]

tanka, well, even though you won't take the praise, I think you are exceptional.

And the fact that there are some exceptions (like you) never invalidates a general rule. That's what a general rule is.

/Edit: ----- I do not intend any sarcasm above this line -----

I know that English is a second language for many on these boards, so I won't heap any criticism on a non-native English speaker for not knowing what a "general rule" is. (However, I do find it amusing that someone on these boards would try to educate me about the basic Attributes in the game. There have also been people, who didn't yet know me, that suggested I should read the books before posting. ;) My gaming group found that hilarious. If I refer to Wisdom, I'm not referring to a game value in Shadowrun.)

[Tanka]

OT: See, your post towards me made it seem like sarcasm and trolling. You don't use emoticons well enough! :P

In any case, I was about to start going into "there are exceptions to every rule. Except that one."

However, then we'd get into a case of which rule supercedes the other, and then it would just get crazy. Can't have crazy, can we? :wobble:

[Lindt]

[Jason Farlander]

[Crimson Jack]

I think its *safer* to say that you can generally generalize a bit more if you know what type of college said students are hailing from. A state school vs. a trade school vs. a junior college vs. law school, for example.

As for myself, I can say that most of my fellow students had a fair to above average amount of street smarts and intelligence. I also knew a small, but still substantial number of people with "combat" skills. There were a sizable section of people that came from the military with their GI bills, those that took martial arts/self defense classes, and plenty of people in my area who knew how to hunt (hunting may not seem very combatty, but I believe that a good hunter would probably have at least a 4 in their Rifles skill). As for the wisdom angle... I'm not so certain that wisdom is doled out that much at that age. Time tends to teach wisdom better than school, IMHO. All in all, I would agree with Tanka on this one.

[Tanka]

And I'll disagree with you on the hunter aspect. At most, I'd say they have a 2. Remember, most people default to their skills. It takes actual time and effort to train a skill. Unless they've been hunting for 40+ years, chances are good they're a 2, maybe a 3.

[Kremlin KOA]

Kanada, my point was simple. those successful at crime are usually quite intelligent. and if you check the laws of the time in each case each of these people worked outside or above the laws they lived in

[Kagetenshi]

[Edward]

By way of equipment the standard availabilities don’t represent what there likely to have. Most non combat wear would be available (what mother would not want to by an encefeleron for there aspiring collage student) but the Ares predator (in any incarnation) would be unlikely to appear on there equipment list in spite of being probably the single most common weapon on the streets.

Make them justify every skill and item of equipment in terms of there collage life. If you have high athletics your on the athletics teem (and bet not have any illegal biowear to improve it) you can have a modest kill in unarmed combat blunt weapons and even pistol shooting as a hobby. Be very fussy about complete answers to the questions where did you get your skills, where did you get your toys.

When I went to university I knew no shortage of very intelligent people with a wide range of esoterical knowledges and skills. Had we had the will (wich was often lacking) we could have come up with plans for anything from a thermonuclear weapon built from items we could legally obtain (I distinctly remember the conversation on where we would get the nuclear material it turned out somebody knew a place where a mining permit was disallowed) to a detailed plan for saving the environment while increasing the standard of living to first world middle class for everybody (but it usually degenerated into politician bashing sessions)

A university (or collage) will hold very skill a shadow runner could conceivably want but not necessarily within a small group of people and then not likely at the level a shadow runner has.

Edward

[Feonyx]

The best criminals are the ones you never hear about.

[Edward]

I know probably 20 criminals that could spend the rest of there lives in jail if it all got out (in some cases I wish I had the evidence) of these only one has the smarts to shut up when I say “I don’t want to know” perversely it isn’t even one of the ones I hate, there really chatty.

Most criminals just don’t have the brains but SR already assumes you’re in the minority when they give you such good skills/attributes/money as a starting character. Even the low power rules make you better than the trash I have dealt with (unless you take low int and spread your skills really thin).

Indecently the group I was referring to in this post has almost know overlap with university group or my gaming group. Most criminals just don’t have the smarts for an RPG. :P

Edward

[tisoz]

One of my favorite character concepts is an old guy elf born near the awakening who decides to go [back] to school. He still looks young enough to blend in, but knows what he wished he'd known then, when he was 20 or so. Look out coeds! ;)

[Shanshu Freeman]

[wargear]

Don't forget that if they were law abiding college students, then any of them who were magically active, specifically spellcasters, will have certainly abided by the licencing laws regarding spell force ratings. Lone Star takes a dim view, as no doubt does the college authorities, of kids running around with greater than force 2 or 3 combat spells...if they even have any combat spells at all. I cannot imagine Blowing Drek Up 101 being an approved part of the curriculum. :S

[Kagetenshi]

Not that they have any real way of enforcing that limitation…

~J

[wargear]

Depends on the game and the GM.

Our GM tends to keep the Star well able to enforce this kind of restriction...with the general public. Corporate law is something else entirely, and Security Mages can get licences for bigger spells readily enough.

[Kagetenshi]

But how are they going to identify a violation? It isn't like a mage's aura has a printed spell list on it…

~J

[wargear]

True, however specific violations...for example a mage casting a force 6 powerball...would leave an astral signature that forensic mages could assense. With enough successes you can generally determine approximate force level, can you not?

[Kagetenshi]

You can. The trick would lie in not actually using the spell most of the time, and doing so in an out-of-the-way or warded area when you do use it. Oh, and cleaning up after yourself.

~J

[toturi]

You just reminded me of something. Other than taking an astral photo of the area, how is one mage going to tell another what the astral sig looked like? If Mage X cast a lawbreaking spell at a lawbreaking force, how is Mage Y going to tell Mage Z what Mage X's astral signature looked like?

[Kagetenshi]

We've discussed it before on the boards; the consensus was that there must be some way, otherwise magical forensics would be nigh-worthless. If you want to take the view that the astral cameras are, in fact, very much not SOTA but have existed for quite some time, then you could have it be indescribable without bending the world too much.

~J

[BitBasher]

[Edward]

In a collage game I would assume that every character has a sin. It could be a good fake but a sin is required to show up to classes.

Second formulas for illegal force or combat spells would not be found in a collage library. Some commonly licensed spells (heal) would be available but only on showing a licence. Thus any unsilenced spells would have to be accessed from another illegal source.

Force 1 and 2 fetish and exclusive spells would be very common however including spells created as project by past students being made public domain (every other industry has a significant amount of useful public domain information spells would be no different)

Edward

[lorthazar]

Actually for skill levels I would place College students in the 3's and 4's for most things. Just enough to useful but still short of being an expert. Of course there might be quite a few 2's in academic skills representing the general education. But on the most part College students will have 3's, 4's, and sometimes 5's and 6's in their area of expertise.