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> Worlds Without End, Just Read the Novel
twofalls
post Nov 7 2004, 08:49 AM
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Hello everyone.

Just a little background. Several years ago I completed a three year long Earthdawn campaign. I've collected all the material published for the game and it remains one of my all time favorite game systems, largely due to the fact that the game which I ran was my most enjoyable campaign to date.

Shadowrun is my all time favorite game system. I've known for a long while that FASA was intending on crossing over the two game timelines, and I've heard folks mention the notion here and there, but the novel Worlds Without End was my first experience with actual product that introduced the notion. I've owned Harlequin's Back for years but until recently haven't really read it.

Are there any other products that touch on this subject that have been released either by FASA before its demise or by Wizkids since FASA's death that you can clue me in on?

Thanks so much!
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cth
post Nov 7 2004, 10:21 AM
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Aunty H's SR/ED Crossovers would be a good place to start...
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Synner
post Nov 7 2004, 11:23 AM
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Dragons of the Sixth World may provide some interesting connections, especially if you have the old ED Dragons.pdf. The Earthdawn connection and the Enemy are no longer the focus of the ongoing metaplots but that isn't to say that the links aren't around here and there. Almost every book I've read in the past couple of years has a hidden reference or two for the connaisseur.
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Ancient History
post Nov 7 2004, 01:59 PM
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There's a copy of the Dragons PDF on my site. You should also read one or two of Tom Dowd's short stories.

Incidentally, the two prequels, "Scars" and "Little Treasures" should be put out in 2005.
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Paul
post Nov 8 2004, 02:46 AM
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In English?
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Ancient History
post Nov 8 2004, 02:52 AM
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Yes, in English.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Nov 8 2004, 03:48 AM
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QUOTE (Synner)
Dragons of the Sixth World may provide some interesting connections, especially if you have the old ED Dragons.pdf. The Earthdawn connection and the Enemy are no longer the focus of the ongoing metaplots but that isn't to say that the links aren't around here and there. Almost every book I've read in the past couple of years has a hidden reference or two for the connaisseur.

Right, and that is aside from the godawful posts by Harlequin and Hestaby.
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Vagabond
post Nov 8 2004, 04:10 AM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
Incidentally, the two prequels, "Scars" and "Little Treasures" should be put out in 2005.

AH: I thought they stopped publishing ED novels? I've been out of it for a while...

If you haven't ran or played Harlequin's Back I would suggest doing so. Afterwards I highly recommdend the Dragonheart trilogy.

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Fortune
post Nov 8 2004, 05:53 AM
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IIRC, Jak Koke has had an influence on these two novels getting published in English (along with his own new ED book).
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Ancient History
post Nov 8 2004, 04:09 PM
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The rights tot he novels have gone back to the writers; Jake Koke's novel "Liferock" was published and Per Aspera claims it'll publish "Scars" and "Little Treasures" in 2005.
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Blue eyes
post Nov 10 2004, 08:07 AM
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Does anybody know what "Scars" and "Little treasures" two books will be dealing with ?

Are we going to see Aina in the 4th world and what she was up to ?

Will we see her interact with other ancients, like Harlequin, Ehran, Oakforest ?

Will we see her interact with any of the dragons, dunkelzahn etc. ?

:wobble:
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MYST1C
post Nov 10 2004, 08:51 AM
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QUOTE (Blue eyes)
Does anybody know what "Scars" and "Little treasures" two books will be dealing with ?

Are we going to see Aina in the 4th world and what she was up to ?

Will we see her interact with other ancients, like Harlequin, Ehran, Oakforest ?

Will we see her interact with any of the dragons, dunkelzahn etc. ?

Well, it's been years since I read those novels (as you probably know they've been published in German about 10 years ago) but "no" to your last question, "yes" to the others IIRC.
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Adarael
post Nov 10 2004, 11:46 AM
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To be a bastard....
Two big reasons why Worlds Without End sucks:

1) The seemingly inescapable fanfic syndrome of game novels. That is to say, the writing is okay, for a game novel. In terms of regular novels? It's godawful. Not to impugn the author's ability totally, but really... why can't authors of game novels escape this trap?

2) Neatly removes control, influence, or import from anyone engaged in combatting the Enemy/Horrors - especially those who may have been involved in Harlequin's Back. Granted, that's a very small group in any given gameworld, but think about it. Your PCs shed blood, sweat, tears to combat the horrors, and what does Worlds Without End do? It says, "Sorry, your sacrifice and hard work actually meant nothing at all. Once again, you have been showed up by a Great Dragon. What's worse, you've been shown up by an npc." I'm all for people getting showed up by a Great Dragon, sure - provided it happens in-game. To just be informed, "Yeah, Dunkie's sacrifice has saved us all! What a great guy!" is kind of a letdown. It removes any actual reason for HB to be played, should it be considered canon. Furthermore, it removes all OOC mystery to why he died, what caused it, et cetera, should the novel be considered canon.

My two cents. Because I hate game novels. They are a plague on the collective mind of GMs.

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MYST1C
post Nov 10 2004, 03:37 PM
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QUOTE (Adarael)
Your PCs shed blood, sweat, tears to combat the horrors, and what does Worlds Without End do? It says, "Sorry, your sacrifice and hard work actually meant nothing at all. Once again, you have been showed up by a Great Dragon. What's worse, you've been shown up by an npc." I'm all for people getting showed up by a Great Dragon, sure - provided it happens in-game. To just be informed, "Yeah, Dunkie's sacrifice has saved us all! What a great guy!" is kind of a letdown. It removes any actual reason for HB to be played, should it be considered canon. Furthermore, it removes all OOC mystery to why he died, what caused it, et cetera, should the novel be considered canon.

Could it be that you are mixing up different novels?
"Worlds Without End" is the last novel of the Earthdawn/Shadowrun crossover-trilogy centered around the elf Aina.
You seem to be talking about "Beyond The Pale", the last novel in the "Dragonheart"-trilogy that dealt with uber-adept-turned-drake Ryan Mercury and Dunkelzahn's assassination.
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Ancient History
post Nov 10 2004, 03:42 PM
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QUOTE
Does anybody know what "Scars" and "Little treasures" two books will be dealing with ?

Are we going to see Aina in the 4th world and what she was up to ?

Will we see her interact with other ancients, like Harlequin, Ehran, Oakforest ?

Will we see her interact with any of the dragons, dunkelzahn etc. ?


Yes on all accounts, from what I have heard from my French and German contacts.

QUOTE
Two big reasons why Worlds Without End sucks


People always love it or hate it. Meh.

QUOTE
1) The seemingly inescapable fanfic syndrome of game novels. That is to say, the writing is okay, for a game novel. In terms of regular novels? It's godawful. Not to impugn the author's ability totally, but really... why can't authors of game novels escape this trap?


While I agree Miss Spector isn't exactly Michael Moorcock or William Gibson, consider that /most/ regular novels are crap along the lines of Danielle Steele and Clive Cussler. Ignoring most of the SR/ED elements, I've always enjoyed the book. Others opinions differ.

QUOTE
Furthermore, it removes all OOC mystery to why he died, what caused it, et cetera, should the novel be considered canon.


Your individual campaign may differ in specifics from the "canon" storyline, that's not only okay but normal and expected. I know the feeling, really...your characters did some cosmic shit, but they can't get any recognition because everybody else did the same thing in their game. It's a toss-up, because on one hand some people like reading those sorts of game books, and some people hate 'em.
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Demonseed Elite
post Nov 10 2004, 04:36 PM
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I'm in the general camp of people who hates the SR novels (both in writing quality and in what they do to the game line). There are exceptions. I think two. Both by the same author.

I think the novels were given far too much liberty in design, considering they are marked as canon, and also given far too much liberty in "answering" plot lines that the game product writers put in for the players, not the novel authors.
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Adarael
post Nov 10 2004, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE
Could it be that you are mixing up different novels?
"Worlds Without End" is the last novel of the Earthdawn/Shadowrun crossover-trilogy centered around the elf Aina.
You seem to be talking about "Beyond The Pale", the last novel in the "Dragonheart"-trilogy that dealt with uber-adept-turned-drake Ryan Mercury and Dunkelzahn's assassination.


That is entirely possible, actually.
The ridiculousness of characters in the Shadowrun novels, as well as their propensity to use lots of ED/SR crossover types (Immortals, Great Dragons, nuclear-powerful magicians, etc) makes them tend to blur in my head.

Still, nothing beats the White Wolf adventure (later used in a novel) that featured a fight in the core of a nuclear reactor. That was the most ridiculous thing ever put to paper.
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mfb
post Nov 10 2004, 09:35 PM
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blasphemy. Shadowboxer has claimed that title, now and forevermore. nothing printed before or after has come, or will come, within a light-year of being as ridiculous as that novel.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 10 2004, 10:01 PM
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Remind me what was in that one?

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mfb
post Nov 10 2004, 11:47 PM
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madness. shame, a fair bit of blinding stupidity, and several parts unbelievably poor exposition. it's the one that starts out with a dwarf in Miami trying to track some stuff down with the help of a street sam that has some kind of advanced prototype pistol-drawing machine thingy that accelerates and decelerates his gun faster than physics allow, but the dwarf got killed by some nameless thug halfway through the book and there was a cat shaman that didn't wear clothes and oh god there's bugs in my skin
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Fortune
post Nov 10 2004, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE (mfb)
blasphemy. Shadowboxer has claimed that title, now and forevermore. nothing printed before or after has come, or will come, within a light-year of being as ridiculous as that novel.

No chance! That honor definitely belongs to The Forever Drug!


*** That is the one with the uber-vamps and the lesbian elves, isn't it? :D
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mfb
post Nov 10 2004, 11:53 PM
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no, no, that was... Terminus Experiment, which had undead vampires in it. and, see, okay. Terminus Experiment was at least a decent read, as long as you didn't try to pretend it was about SR. it had all the elements of a decent paperback thriller, it just violated everything else written about vampires in SR.
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post Nov 10 2004, 11:58 PM
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No. The Terminus Experiment.

Damn mfb and his faster, nimble fingers.

Funny, I could have sworn typing something a while back about making sure to reload a page before I posted. Meh.
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Halabis
post Nov 11 2004, 12:09 AM
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I dunno, i kinda like SR novels. Even Terminus Experiment. Although the Secrets of Power Trilogy didnt do to much for me.
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Fortune
post Nov 11 2004, 01:44 AM
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QUOTE (mfb @ Nov 11 2004, 10:53 AM)
no, no, that was... Terminus Experiment, which had undead vampires in it.

You're right .. my bad. :oops:

QUOTE
it just violated everything else written about vampires in SR.


... and taste! ;)

It wasn't bad, but it wasn't anything like Shadowrun.
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