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> Weapon Focus Cyber Spurs?, Astral Sight and Samurai
lorthazar
post Nov 9 2004, 05:37 PM
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One of my players wants to take the Astral Sight surge in my campaign with a Street Samurai type. I'm alright with this as he has come up with a very suitable story as to how it happened. While we were talking he brought up the question of Retractable Cyber Spur weapon foci. I already made my rulling. (No, I won't tell you.) But I am interested in everyones opinion.
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Cable
post Nov 9 2004, 05:40 PM
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I'd say no. The cyberware would be far to refined and worked to make a suitable focus. I like to say all weapon foci must be handmade, to keep out the machined element.

Plus, the spurs would be to hard to take away if they become a problem, and can't be taken away for plot purposes.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Nov 9 2004, 05:42 PM
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The enchantment test will be a pain, but it works. He needs to get them enchanted before the surgery, and can't add any later enchantments to them without going through at least two surgical procedures.
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Cray74
post Nov 9 2004, 05:43 PM
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I've thought about this off and on. In my opinion, it should be practical enough to make the blades of retractable spurs into weapon foci. Plug them into the cybernetic retraction mechanism and you're good to go. Weapon foci are expensive investments and cyberspurs aren't the most lethal of formats for weapon foci so...why not?
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Kremlin KOA
post Nov 9 2004, 05:44 PM
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I see no probs with this.... although they will be low force foci as focus addiction is a bitch
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Austere Emancipa...
post Nov 9 2004, 05:51 PM
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As far as SR canon is concerned, it's absolutely possible to make a focus out of cyberimplant weaponry. And I agree, I can't think of any reason not to allow it in my games.

MitS has rules on how to make anything into a focus. You can make a sustaining focus out of a pocket secretary, a power focus out of a head-set radio, or anything else of that nature. It just screws up your TN for the Enhanting test -- you're looking at at least TN 24 (can be much higher if the GM wishes it to be) before adding Orichalcum into the equation when enchanting an unprepared Cyberspur implant into a Force 6 Weapon Focus, compared to TN ~14 for enchanting in a similar way a sword that has been purposely built for this from the ground up with a number of alchemical radicals included. See mits.42-45, and sr3.182 for Object Resistance.
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Cable
post Nov 9 2004, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE (Cray74)
Weapon foci are expensive investments and cyberspurs aren't the most lethal of formats for weapon foci so...why not?

Good Point. I offically change my position.
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LinaInverse
post Nov 9 2004, 05:57 PM
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In theory, anything can be a foci. So yes, I'd say Cyberspurs are just fine. If you want to get really obnoxious (and a high TN#), try thinking about making a Monowhip Weapon Foci.
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Tanka
post Nov 9 2004, 06:02 PM
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Very, very gray area, there...

Some would argue that the focus is useless until bound, of which mundanes cannot do (as per canon).

Some would argue that they are effective in terms of ignoring the Immunity to normal weapons that some spirits and critters have.

If he (or she) doesn't have a Magic rating, he (or, again, she) cannot bind the focus.

Then the big time thinking comes in.

Since it does have Orichalcum in it... It is no longer a normal weapon.

Then again, since it isn't bound, then it really is nothing more than a weapon with some metallurgical monstrosity in it.

Personally, I'd rule that it ignores the Immunity, but nothing else (including no extra dice).
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KarmaInferno
post Nov 9 2004, 06:02 PM
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You should be able to just take an existing set of the blade part of the cyberspurs as a template and then hand-forge a new set in the traditional manner to match, to avoid the high TN for manufactured items.

B/R edged weapons?


-karma
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Critias
post Nov 9 2004, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (Cable)
Plus, the spurs would be to hard to take away if they become a problem, and can't be taken away for plot purposes.

Sure they can. All you need is a troll with some pliers.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Nov 9 2004, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE (tanka @ Nov 9 2004, 01:02 PM)
If he (or she) doesn't have a Magic rating, he (or, again, she) cannot bind the focus.

Astral sight, magic rating of 1, can bond the focus.

A force 1 weapon focus isn't game breaking in any way, even if you let him use his bone lacing as the focus (which I would not). The costs are obscene and he can get almost as much benefit from a reflex recorder.
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Tanka
post Nov 9 2004, 06:09 PM
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Owowowowowowow...

Reminds me in the older X-Men comics. (Those that have not read or heard about when Wolvey loses his metal, a spoiler is contained herein.)

[ Spoiler ]


Edit: Herald: Might help if I took more than a glance at YotC, eh? Well, moot point on my part. Change stance to "it works."

Oh, but make sure to really peeve them by rolling for Magic loss when they get them installed. :vegm:
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BitBasher
post Nov 9 2004, 06:13 PM
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On that wolverine thing:
[ Spoiler ]
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Critias
post Nov 9 2004, 06:16 PM
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[ Spoiler ]
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Tanka
post Nov 9 2004, 06:17 PM
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Hm. I never got heavy into the comics, so I didn't know as much.

Granted, a lot of things go through the "You're fucking up the universe" periods. I think authors really like to make people angry.

Example 1: Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time series. Still not over, no end in sight. And he's getting older. Oi.
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lorthazar
post Nov 9 2004, 06:17 PM
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I did make him roll for magic loss with my new harder to succeed system Magic Dice vs. 12-magic as a TN. He got a 56 on one die.
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Tanka
post Nov 9 2004, 06:18 PM
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...

One lucky-ass player.

The Dice Gods looked down on him and smiled. A lot. Maybe even threw a party in his favor.
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Ol' Scratch
post Nov 9 2004, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE (Cray74)
...and cyberspurs aren't the most lethal of formats for weapon foci so...why not?

You're joking, right? :) Strength and a half to Power and Ambidexterity bonuses? They're amongst the best weapons in the game, doubly so when used with Pentjak-Silat 4 and Close Combat.
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Tanka
post Nov 9 2004, 06:22 PM
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Not to mention you can't lose them short of some vast physical pain on your part or the skill of a physician (or non-skill if you don't mind losing most of the use of your hands).
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lorthazar
post Nov 9 2004, 06:34 PM
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Well there are drawbacks as well. While he can turn the foci off he has to remember to tell me so. This character has never played a mage so I doubt he'll remember that often. Can we say ground to manifestation, anyone?
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Tanka
post Nov 9 2004, 06:39 PM
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That doesn't work in 3rd. A rule only in 2nd.

(We just had a thread about this, heh.)
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Jason Farlander
post Nov 9 2004, 06:42 PM
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Can we say "grounding doesnt exist in this edition of shadowrun" anyone?

I'd say the biggest drawback, especially if theyre low force foci, is that failing to deactivate them leaves them vulnerable to destruction via astral combat. A powerful, dematerialized spirit can fly in and destroy a low force focus before friend sammy knows what hit him. Then he's out all that nuyen and karma.

I suggest being nice and reminding him at least once that he should leave them off most of the time, for that reason. The costs associated with weapon foci are nontrivial, and it really sucks to throw hundreds of thousands of nuyen down the toilet because of a seemingly minor overlooked detail.
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lorthazar
post Nov 9 2004, 06:42 PM
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Maybe it only work in 2 edition in your world, but I believe it a valid concept. it makes all the runners more paranoid and it is a great way to get rid of foci.
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LinaInverse
post Nov 9 2004, 06:43 PM
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As tanka says, you're out of luck there lorthazar. No more grounding.

The only issues w/ foci now are 1) foci addiction, 2) Wards (as in getting past them), and 3) Legality (anything >3 force).
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