 Quick cyberware question, Where does it say you can't have Beta? |
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  Nov 10 2004, 12:26 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 63 Joined: 21-October 04 Member No.: 6,778  |
I know I read somewhere that starting characters can't have beta or delta grade cyberware, but I forgot which page of which book I read this. I looked at where I thought the answer would obviously be at (various sections in Man and Machine, Shadowrun Companion, BBB), but I must've missed it. Can anyone help me out here? Is there a specific passage in a book that says "Starting characters can not of Beta or Delta grade 'ware" or was it just implied in the BBB when it mentioned players can only pick up regular or alpha?
Thanks in advance. |
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Nov 10 2004, 12:31 AM
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#2
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
M&M p. 45, Availability. "Betaware [and Deltaware] is not available to starting characters."
Oh, and remind me to smack you upside the head for using "BBB." |
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Nov 10 2004, 12:32 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 626 Joined: 1-March 04 Member No.: 6,112 |
In addition to this, Beta and Delta add to the Availability ratings of cyberware- and will make the avail ratings for all cyberware higher than 8, which is higher than a starting char can get.
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Nov 10 2004, 12:35 AM
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#4
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Actually there's a few implants that hit Avail 8 or less even with the +5 Betaware modifier. They're all really minor items though, like Cyberhands, Peglegs, Voice Modulators, Simrigs, and Hand Razors. I honestly don't know why they banned it; the same paragraph that outlaws it for starting characters also states its nearly as available in shadow clinics as standard and alphagrade implants are.
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Nov 10 2004, 12:36 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 626 Joined: 1-March 04 Member No.: 6,112 |
*tries and fails to picture a Delta pegleg*
What, would you make it out of gold or something? Cover it in purple pimp shag? There's just not that much you can DO with a pegleg. |
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Nov 10 2004, 12:37 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 63 Joined: 21-October 04 Member No.: 6,778 |
Thanks guys. It always helps to have the exact page reference because that usually stops a rules argument right in it's tracks.
And Funk, before you commence your smacking, what abbreviation (if any) should I use for the main Shadowrun Rulebook? SR3? |
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Nov 10 2004, 12:39 AM
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#7
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
SR3 is preferred, yes. :)
Toptomcat: Cybernetic peglegs are not normal peglegs. They come with cybernetic controls and are tapped into your nervous system just like other impacts. Even has an Essence loss. So while getting a deltagrade Pegleg (or even a cybernetic one at all) is incredibly retarded, doing so would serve a purpose -- it'd knock the Essence down to 0.05. |
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Nov 10 2004, 02:09 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 5-March 03 From: Wouldn't you like to know? Member No.: 4,203 |
Well I always assumed that BBB meant the swanky limited edition hardcover SR3 book. But its used so liberally around these parts that I'm not sure any more. But I have no clue what Dr. Funk's problem with it is. MAybe he forgot to take his meds today.
The New Big D |
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Nov 10 2004, 02:20 AM
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#9
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That's BABY. :)
Contrariness for the sake of his own amusement. ;) |
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Nov 10 2004, 02:24 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Since I like BBB as an abriviation and find SR3 annoying, I'll smack anyone who uses SR3 for anything other than to differenciate between this edition and old ones (as in "In SR3 there's no skillweb, unlike in SR2). Besides, SR3 is the whole game system (3rd Edition Shadowrun). BBB is the basic book.
JaronK |
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Nov 10 2004, 02:50 AM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
The problem with "BBB" is that it's an acronym for a non-obvious nickname for a book, which makes its meaning totally opaque to anyone who's not in the know.
I typically call it "the corebook", or (in citations accompanied by a page number, usually) just "SR3". Context normally makes it obvious whether the latter refers to the edition as a whole or just the corebook. (And if context would be insufficient, I specify.) |
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Nov 10 2004, 02:53 AM
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#12
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Arguments between usage of BBB and SR3 have been done to death, most recently here.
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Nov 10 2004, 02:53 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 476 Joined: 30-December 03 From: Fresno, CFS: taking out one durned furriner at a time. Member No.: 5,940 |
While personally I do agree with you in principal, there are a couple more implants that might make others a bit wary. In addition, as Delta is largely a pipe-dream in most games and that Beta is the best they'll get, acquiring Beta during Character Creation means that there's little room for upgrading as a cyber based character.
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Nov 10 2004, 05:54 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 2,034 |
Fantastically obscure cyberware minutia:
Peg-legs and hook-hands are only available in standard grade :) |
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Nov 10 2004, 06:20 PM
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#15
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Where's the problem? They're still paying four times as much, and the Availability is still 8. Before or after the start of the game, Avail 8 is a breeze to hit... so it really doesn't matter all that much. |
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Nov 10 2004, 06:29 PM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Unless the GM doesn't care and, as I recall, the availability rules are generally phrased along the lines of "it's recommended that starting character's do not..." rather than, "GMs who let starting characters have high availability gear shall be beaten and arrested by the game police." IMO, if a player wants beta wired 2 or delta bonelacing for his new PC, that's fine by me. It burns a helluva lot of starting cash that cannot be spent on other mischief-causing items, nevermind the saved essence. |
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Apr 22 2006, 03:29 AM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,002 Joined: 22-April 06 From: Canada Member No.: 8,494 |
It is totaly up to the GM on how he/she decides to run his/her game. That being said there is something to be said about allowing players to have the "goodies" early on in a campain. I never let my pc get the good stuff till about 3 or 4 missions in.
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Apr 22 2006, 11:01 PM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
All of the rules are recommendations. It is recommended that your chars don't start as vampires or dragons or free spirits either, but people have campaigns where they happen.
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Apr 23 2006, 04:53 AM
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#19
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
SR4 bans Beta and above, too, but much more clearly allows Cultured Bioware.
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Apr 23 2006, 04:49 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
Holy thread necromancy, Batman!
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Apr 23 2006, 07:50 PM
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#21
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Looks to me like someone with too much time on their hands was scanning back through dead topics, forgot that he was scanning dead topics, and felt moved to post.
-10 points. |
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Apr 23 2006, 09:45 PM
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#22
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Or felt it was an interesting enough discussion that they'd like to get some more input on it.
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Oct 16 2006, 09:41 AM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 18-April 03 From: The UV Nexus Member No.: 4,474 |
Raise pegleg; remove rubber cap; expose autocannon. |
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Oct 16 2006, 03:05 PM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
This is the thread that never ends. It just goes on and on my friends....
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Oct 16 2006, 03:11 PM
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#25
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
See, I have this bad habit of not reading every single date stamp. So I open this thread up to see what's new on Dumpshock, and what do I see? Posts by Doctor Funkenstein. It wasn't a good feeling.
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