 Zen Gunnery, Bleepbleepbleepwheeee.... "Oh sh!t..." |
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 Nov 11 2004, 12:05 PM
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#1
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722  |
I was thinking about the whole geasing physad powers thing recently. Now, you remember the movie Equilibrium (star film, btw, everything the Matrix sequels wanted to be). The bit during the lie detector test, when the hero goes completely emotionless and then kicks arse all over the place.
So my thought is that this would be the equivalent of a physad geasing his Improved Combat Ability (Pistols) with the requirement "Zen State" or something like that. Use Willpower or a Meditation skill, require a roll... say every combat turn? Or would that be too harsh? And what sort of target numbers would you say we were talking about? |
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Nov 11 2004, 12:06 PM
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#2
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
He was Centering.
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Nov 11 2004, 12:09 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Loughborough, UK Member No.: 1,321 |
I would say the scene near the end of Equilibrium you're referring to is a better example of Centring applied to Ranged and Melee Combat. However as earler scenes have proved Preston is already an Initiated Adept with plenty of Improved Pistols and Improved Clubs, plus a bunch of sensory boosts and Improved Reflexes... ;)
-JH. EDIT: Beaten to the punch by Toturi... |
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Nov 11 2004, 12:10 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 24-September 04 Member No.: 6,700 |
the big problem with zen-anything imho is what happens when a fellow runner uses a free to warn you of something.. you are very unlikely to listen..
to activate it I would make the guy roll a meditation skill 1/combat not 1/combat turn as there are enough dice being rolled already... why a skill? gives me the option of using an opposed test of some kind if someone wants to break his concentration.. DS |
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Nov 11 2004, 12:14 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
Centring, eh? I remain pretty unclear about how Centring affects physad abilities. I get that you can reduce modifiers, so presumably Preston is centring to reduce range and movement penalties? Or is it operating in some other fashion? (Mostly I used Centring to assist with drain before :) )
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Nov 11 2004, 12:21 PM
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#6
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Nitpick: there are no range modifiers, it's just that the base TN varies based on range.
~J |
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Nov 11 2004, 12:32 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
One other point, and it's an odd one I grant you.
If you geased Improved Reflexes with "When using pistols", would that count if you were using the pistols as clubs as per Equilibrium? Bizarre thought, I know, but I was curious. |
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Nov 11 2004, 12:55 PM
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#8
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Depends on exactly how you present the geas and what your GM happens to think of it. If you say the geas is "When wielding pistols", and your GM approves of it, then it should mean whenever you have a pistol in hand, ready to be used as a weapon in any way.
In any case, the geas cannot really be "When shooting with pistols" because that would mean you only have a good Init when it's your action anyway, which doesn't make any sense. |
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Nov 11 2004, 03:03 PM
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#9
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
You could always use the Talisman Geas linked to the Adept's special pair of pistols. He could even Attune to them later. Enchanting them as twinned Weapon Foci for the purposes of melee is always nice. :)
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Nov 11 2004, 03:14 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 485 Joined: 25-October 04 Member No.: 6,789 |
Actually I have one small point. There are three states that show up on a polygraph as a stright line. A: Death, B: not being hooked up, and C: pure unadultered unfettered rage. Even being completely emotionless shows up as mild moving back and forth beuse your body does that automatically.
In the end he was furious, kinda like the berserker. Except this one had all his martial training to channel that pure rage into the most impressive physical onslaught anyone around him had ever seen. Now that is Centering |
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Nov 11 2004, 03:15 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
I've always been vaguely suspicious of the Talisman geas, especially when applied to a weapon; even if the GM isn't actively giving you grief, there are just so many occasions when weapons can't be carried around. Getting a concealed carry permit would alleviate some of them, of course, if your GM is prepared to let you get away with that.
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Nov 11 2004, 03:28 PM
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#12
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
I swear, we should start a counter on how many threads based on Equilibrium comes up...
Don't get me wrong, EQ is a great movie, but... There's no way in hell you can have him as he is in the movie at chargen. Sure, you could get there after several Initiations (and increasing some Attributes and Skills), but, other than that... Even if you link his powers to having his pistols (or at least one, since he does switch with whatshisface at one point), 8 points still isn't enough. Plus... You'd think he had a Smartlink or something, or an Adept power specifically created for him. High Athletics, high Pistols, high Clubs, high Interrogation (or at least better than average), Ettiquette/Grammaton Cleric would be up there as well... Pretty difficult to pull off at chargen, if possible at all to match him how he is at even the beginning of the movie. Oh, Edged Weapons! Can't forget his fights with those. |
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Nov 11 2004, 03:58 PM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
This I know. I'm looking to base a character on the concept, not play Preston the Grade 10 Initiate.
And I posited an Adept power that decreases the target number to hit by 1 on here some time ago, but it got shot down :) There's a metamagic technique for it now, although I genuinely don't think it's the same thing; my current builds tend to be based around a Physmage including 1 pt of Magical Power and a sustaining focus with Enhance Aim on it. But since the subject has come up again, let's have another crack at it: Adept Power: Marksman Description: The adept has a subconscious instinct for range and vector that assists in ranged combat. Basic concept: that the power should provide a TN modifier equivalent to those available from technological sighting devices. Make the power available in 2 levels (cost 0.5 for level 1, 1.0 for level 2), each level providing a -1 TN to ranged attacks. Comparing this to the Smartlink 2 at an Essence cost of 0.5, it seems fair. Possible twist: make Improved Combat Ability a prerequisite for getting Marksman; so, for example, the Gun Kata Adept with ICA: Pistols and Marksman 2 would have a TN of 2 at close range with a Colt Manhunter but 4 with an Ingram Smartgun. |
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Nov 11 2004, 04:41 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Loughborough, UK Member No.: 1,321 |
It's neeeearly possible to build a Preston clone at Chargen for 130BPs (guess who had a quiet lunch break?). Adept, of course, and human. Low Resources (90k should be plenty), with the rest of the points going into Attributes...
B4, Q6, S4, C3, I6, W5 ...and Skills... Pistols 5 (Weapon of choice 7), Clubs 4 (Pistol Butts 6), Edged Weapons 3 (Katana 5), Kali 4, Athletics 4, Stealth 6, Etiquette 1 (Tetragrammaton 3), Meditation 4, Car 2 ...with the Adept Powers of... Improved Pistols 4, Improved Reaction 2, Improved Clubs 2. The pistol of choice can be pretty much anything, though personal recommendations would be either Thunderbolts or TMPs, either with personalised grips and Gas Venting. Savalette Guardians are also a worthy choice, though it's probably easier and cheaper to go for Manhunters and have them retooled for select-fire. In any case, try not to get within fifty metres of him. Of course, when one initiates, more Improved Abilities are available, and you're already set up to take Centring. Swapping the Meditation skill for Prayer and making him a Michaeline Templar is also a nice twist... -JH. |
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Nov 11 2004, 04:46 PM
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#15
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Not even close. Preston had at least a rating of 8 in Pistols and Edged Weapons in addition to having both augmented with Improved Ability. He was easily World-Class. Nevermind that you need at least two initiate grades of Centering at the very least, too, which would have Centering and Gun-Kata skills at a minimum of 8 as well. Then you have the multiple Martial Arts and Martial Arts Maneuvers to deal with...
That, alone, is enough to insure that you can't create Preston (as opposed to a normal Tetra-Grammaton Cleric which is pretty easy to do) with character creation rules. |
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Nov 11 2004, 04:54 PM
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#16
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Magical smartlink=ew. We've got too much overlap as it is.
~J |
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Nov 11 2004, 05:08 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Loughborough, UK Member No.: 1,321 |
Bear in mind with a specific pistol skill of 7, plus four levels of Improved Pistols, we're rolling 11 dice before combat pool. I've only seen one character do that in a Shadowrun game, and I never saw him shoot at someone and not kill them outright. And bearing in mind the amount of use it gets in the film, a Katana skill of 5 isn't too underpowered- he's good, but it's not his primary focus (the katana was a dress weapon after all). For close combat he has the pistols, where you're looking at 11 dice again before combat pool if he's fully ambidextrous, and IIRC Kali allows you to take maneuvers for clubs- close combat, I believe. Sure, he's not quite as much of a god-killer as Preston is at the end of the film, but he'd been earning and spending karma by then. He should keep pace with the initial Preston. :) -JH. |
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Nov 11 2004, 05:10 PM
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#18
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Can't forget Blind Fire (firing behind your back and hitting? Come on) and some better reflexes (can never remember if it's Increased or Improved Reflexes). Oh, and using tonfa (which would be Clubs, I think, but more than a 4).
Maybe after 200 karma you can have Preston, but not at chargen. |
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Nov 11 2004, 05:13 PM
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#19
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
Blaze: what is this skills “kali”.
And we have had a magical better than smart link since MITS came out using enhanced aim at force 4 it is easy to get -2 to target numbers and it will stack with any non cyber targeting system. Including smart goggles although I prefer an optical scope and extended laser sight. Edward |
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Nov 11 2004, 05:18 PM
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#20
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
While Improved Ability affects the game in the same fashion as Skill, it is not considered a Skill. Regardless, the character of Preston most definitely had a minimum base skill rating of 8 in all of his Combat Skills in addtiion to maxed out Improved Ability in those same skills. That's 16 dice each, easy. He completely oblitered an entire group of fellow Tetra-Grammaton Clerics with ease, one blow per Cleric. In melee combat. That means he scored a minimum of 8 net successes over each opponent, of which he attacked using Multi-Strike at least six times (so he was countering at least a +6 to +12 TN modifier with his Centering Skill). The "initial Preston" wasn't much different. He stood in the middle of a group of opponents weilding full-auto weapons using suppressive fire (which ignores penalties for darkness, mind you) and he didn't get so much as a scratch. Not much later, he took out an entire group of highly-trained officers in heavy armor like they didn't exist at all. The difference between the "two Prestons" was minimal; he was a god from the start. Like I said, creating a Tetra-Grammaton Cleric is easy to do with starting characters. Creating Preston is closer to creating Harlequinn with the character creation rules -- it's just not going to happen. |
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Nov 11 2004, 05:21 PM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
Enhanced Aim 4 is far from being better than a smartlink. In order for that -2 to not simply be countered by the penalty for sustaining a spell, you would need to either quicken it (which takes lots of karma to gain the technique, use it, and guard it against dispelling) or get a sustaining focus (which costs either 60,000 or 120,000 :nuyen: depending on whether you get it during chargen). Aside from the drastic increase in cost to make it effective, opponents you try to shoot at with enhanced aim actually get resistance checks, since, yaknow, its a detection spell and they're being unwillingly affected by it. So there are no guarantees concerning its effectiveness at all. |
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Nov 11 2004, 05:23 PM
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#22
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Enhanced Aim has a pathetically short range and is a sustained spell/effect so as an adept power it can't be used with a Sustaining Focus (thus you need it at at least Force 8 to duplicate the -2 modifier a smartlink provides). If instead you mean you simply used the spell, then you'd have to have a Sustaining Focus and someone who not only knew the spell but was willing to recast it for you each and everything you had to deactivate it when you went through a ward or the like (not to mention score all 4 successes you'd need on that TN of 6 each and every time).
Kali is a variant name for one of the Martial Arts skills in Cannon Companion. |
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Nov 11 2004, 05:27 PM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
Okay, now I know I'm going to regret asking this, but - why would you need Enhance Aim at Force 4? I don't have MitS, only the older Awakenings, where a Force of 1 (so only needing a Force 1 sustaining focus to maintain it) would work just as well.
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Nov 11 2004, 05:30 PM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
Oh yeah, forgot about the range issues. I dont recall if Preston ever actually shot at anyone over 24 meters away, though, so maybe thats a non-issue.\
DrJest: In the new version of Enhanced Aim provided in MITS, the TN reduction is limited to 1/2 Force. |
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Nov 11 2004, 05:31 PM
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#25
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
You need two net successes per -1 to your target number, to a maximum of one-half the Force of the spell. Thus you need four successes (Target: 6) and a Force 4 spell to get a -2 modifier.
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