 Who can call watchers? |
  |
  Nov 14 2004, 09:52 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 556 Joined: 28-May 04 From: Moorhead, MN, USA Member No.: 6,367  |
I thought that only hermetic mages could call watchers. Is that from a previous edition? 'Cause it says "Any magician able to use Conjuring to summon spirits can summon watchers." (MITS 100) Am I missing something?
|
 |
 
|
|
Nov 14 2004, 09:57 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
All characters capable of Conjuring can summon Watcher spirits and it was the same in 2nd Edition.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 14 2004, 10:05 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 556 Joined: 28-May 04 From: Moorhead, MN, USA Member No.: 6,367 |
Thanks. I guess I don't know where I got that notion. Sorry. :oops:
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 14 2004, 10:12 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Maybe from Watcher Conjuring Materials? They do mention that Psionics can also summon them and that Mental Forms might be a related species of spirit.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 15 2004, 11:05 PM
Post
#5
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 16-September 04 Member No.: 6,670 |
Nah, I wouldn't worry about that. What would be the material components... A little spit and some dog poo... |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Nov 15 2004, 11:05 PM
Post
#6
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 16-September 04 Member No.: 6,670 |
WAIT!!! Awakened dog poo |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Nov 15 2004, 11:44 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Considering that Watchers came out of a MIT&T lab, I'd guess the materials to be rather hermetic in appearance. A quartz crystal impregnated with dust from a shattered glass prism set into a glazed clay disc and a blank sheet of paper or something.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 15 2004, 11:46 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Maybe the original materials did, but it would still vary from tradition to tradition. They just developed the "formula" for doing it... and like any formula, the method of using it is different for each magician even though they can all use the exact same formula.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2004, 12:01 AM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Well, they have existed for only 6 or 7 years in game time, but I guess you're right. Some Amerindians replaced the crystal with an eagle eye and use salmon eggs as the inhibitor instead of prism dust, and they often forgo the glaze and just paint the discs afterwards as the conduit. And sure, the wujen use mercury suspended in a jade on a porcelain disc... And the voodoo use snake eyes, venomous outside with water snake pupils and attach them to store bought paper plates with nutria hair...
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2004, 12:13 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 19-August 02 Member No.: 3,139 |
I think Spit and dog poo should work fine.
LOL, that was good. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2004, 12:26 AM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Summoner: "This shit costs a thousand nuyen?!'
Talismonger: "Yes, and it's awakened boogie droppings, not shit." Summoner: "And this?" Talismonger: "Er, well that's spit." Summoner: "For a thousand smackers it better be dragon spit!" Talismonger: "No, dragon spit is for fire elementals..." |
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2004, 12:39 AM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
"But we have some nice Dragon Poo for summoning Earth elementals"
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2004, 04:05 AM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Bah. All you really need is 4cc's of mouse blood and an egg. It has to be a fresh egg, though. :D
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2004, 04:19 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 |
The watcher conjuring materials are only for the longer term summons right? You can conjure a watcher with nothing if you only need it for a couple of hours right?
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2004, 04:25 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Correct. I believe each unit of Watcher Conjuring Materials insures one week's duration. Even that's not a requirement; you can use a point of Good Karma in place of (or in addition to) each unit.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2004, 06:39 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
The method is a bit odd. If you want the longer duration, you need to use enough materials/karma to match the units of time you succeeded on your conjuring test. It takes one unit to change a force 9 watcher from a one hour life to a one week, but 7 to change the lifespan of a force 1 watcher from seven hours to seven weeks.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 16 2004, 11:21 PM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I wouldn't want to piss off anyone capable of Conjuring a Force 9 Watcher! :eek: :D
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 17 2004, 06:03 PM
Post
#18
|
|||
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
The part that messed me up too was the fact it requires materials to summon, which normally shaman don't require. That and the overall characteristics of watchers are non-shamanic since they can do remote service and can cross domain boundries. For these reasons alone we assumed Shamans where excluded from watcher spirits. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Nov 17 2004, 06:10 PM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
But, as was said earlier, they do not require materials to summon. The materials are there as an option (along with, or instead of spending Karma) to keep the Watcher around longer. :)
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 17 2004, 06:18 PM
Post
#20
|
|||
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Still bugs me Shaman's can summon a non-domain spirit. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Nov 17 2004, 06:24 PM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Bugs me hermetics can summon a spirit as one complex action. That's why the little buggers work for anyone who can conjure, they ignore the rules of each and every tradition.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 17 2004, 06:24 PM
Post
#22
|
|||
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Though that took Force in hours to summon an elemental? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Nov 17 2004, 06:28 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Yes, to summon an elemental, but watcher spirits only take one action. That was my point, watchers don't follow any of the rules for listed traditions, but psionics come closest (voodoo as second).
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 17 2004, 06:28 PM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Shamanic characters can summon Spirits that can cross Domain lines by using Invoking too. :D
Watchers are described as being different to normal Spirits, and are simple to summon for anyone with a minimum skill in Conjuring. I don't see this as being unbalancing in the slightest. Why should Hermetics have the opportunity to have double the normal amount (12 or even more) of Spirits on hand while the Shaman has only one? |
|
|
|
|
Nov 17 2004, 06:53 PM
Post
#25
|
|||
|
Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
I think you were just misreading (yet another) poorly worded rule. "...by paying Karma equal to its lifespan in weeks or expending the same number of materials..." means each unit you pay gives it a week's duration. It's wholly independant from the base time you conjured it for; use of karma or mateirals completely overrides it. Whether you summoned it for one hour or ten hours, using one unit/karma extends it to one week's duration. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 26th April 2024 - 10:34 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.