 Actioneer, Fashionable armour |
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 Nov 15 2004, 10:59 AM
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#1
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722  |
So I have this ork houngan, Remy Coeur de Lion. Old character that I was bringing up to date (how old? Well, let's just say that he was originally created using the New Orleans features from the old White Wolf magazine :/ ).
He was always immaculately turned out, which at the time included a full set of Vashon Island Houndstooth. Looking at the CC (p.48), I see that they've updated their line with the Actioneer. Fair enough, I've got cash lying around. Oh, and they come with their own long coat now - an alternative to that Mortimer Greatcoat he always wore. Then I think to look at the stacked armour bonuses. And I quote, "The long coat... does not count as a separate item for layering armour." Waaaait a minute. Are they saying it adds straight on to the rest of it? Because: Suit jacket (1.5/1) Slacks (1/0.5) Hi-Collar Shirt (1.5/0.5) Long Coat (2/2) adds up to 6/4! Add a suit of FFBA.3 (er... full body suit these days, I mean), which doesn't reduce your Quickness for layering, you're looking at a whopping 8/4 armour rating - and you look good too! Is this right? Or did I miss something important? |
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Nov 15 2004, 11:13 AM
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#2
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
yeah, youīre missing that the suit jacket and the coat arenīt compatible. but youīre right that actioneer long coat kicks ass! my personal favourite is the following:
armor vest w/ plates (dikote)___4/3 (+1/+1) actioneer long coat__________+2/+2 real leather_________________0/+1 FFBA shirt__________________+1/0 forearm guards______________0/+1 ----------------------------------------------------- ___________________________8/8 and the best thing is that you only need a quickness of 6+ to avoid that nasty combat pool loss. |
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Nov 15 2004, 11:20 AM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
Ahh, cheers mate :) Because you (IRL) wear a long/great coat over a suit jacket, I'd assumed they stacked. Do you have a page ref for that?
And yeah, that's a neat combo you've got going there :) |
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Nov 15 2004, 11:24 AM
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#4
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
You'll look stupid with the FFBA hood over your head but that's a matter of style.
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Nov 15 2004, 11:29 AM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
sure, page 121 cc
Vashon Island, Actioneer Line entry: notice the asterics at suit jacket* and long coat* these mean that those items canīt be worn together. have fun with the actioneer long coat and laugh as the bullets bounce off your armor :D |
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Nov 15 2004, 11:40 AM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
Ta Cy :)
Toturi: I'd assumed the hood could be left down until needed - possibly that it was even detachable, as some raincoat hoods are today. Tuck it back under the coat, pull it up when actually needed. Hey, that raises a question - is this hood faceless or full face? Enquiring minds want to know :) If it's the Spiderman-style pull-on mask, it would be easy enough to tuck it in a pocket until you need it. Hell, it works for Spidey ;) |
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Nov 15 2004, 11:50 AM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
iīve always thought of FFBA 3 as some kind of ninja suit :S and my characters always had full face masks (like the suit in "the saint"). i like to combine them with ruthenium polymeres and thermal dampening. you can get by far better protection than just wearing a FFBA, but itīs very stylish for sneaky chars.
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Nov 15 2004, 12:56 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 11-September 04 From: French Runner Member No.: 6,652 |
Sorry for disturbing your nice'n'cushy armored paradise but unless I'm mistaken by the rules of Armor Layering any subsequent layer should be halved and so it should be something like: - Armor Vest 4/3 (5/4 w/ Dikote) - Actioneer long coat +1/+1 - real leather clothes (0/0 ) (0/+1 rounded down to 0/0) - FFBA shirt +0/+0 (+1/+0 rounded down) forearm guards +0/+1 (added like a helmet) total: 6/6 which is quite impressive as far as Impact is concernend in my game... Your FFBA doesn't have any hood, that only comes with the level 3 FFBA... Am I mistaken here? |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:05 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
sorry, but thou art wrong (i already factored those things in):
Armor Vest 4/3 (5/4 w/ Dikote) - Actioneer long coat +1/+1 -> no it explicitely says "it does not count as layering armor" --> +2/+2 - real leather clothes (0/0 ) (0/+1 rounded down to 0/0) -> no itīs 0/2 halved 0/1 - FFBA shirt +0/+0 (+1/+0 rounded down) -> no itīs 0/2 halved 0/1 + forearm guard +0/+1 ===> 8/8 is correct EDIT: i know that the shirt doesnīt have a hood, but i was talking about FFBA 3 when mentionong the ninja stuff |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:14 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 11-September 04 From: French Runner Member No.: 6,652 |
Seems thou have a point here, Sir Cymo, please let me apologize...(I didn't have my books at hand, being currently at my workplace ;-) )
8/8 ...that's a lot !!! very difficult to beat such a character in hand to hand combat... |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:17 PM
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#11
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
You are mistaken. The values you used are already halved and rounded down, however... The Armour Vest would be layered with the second highest rated piece of armour. Depending on how your GM feels about the layering rules, it can be the highest 2 overall rated armours or the 2 highest rated armour of each type(ballistic and impact), unless otherwise stated like Forearm guards or Helmets. Therefore, Armour Vest(dikoted) and Actioneer Longcoat = 6/5 + 0/1 forearm guards However for style, I would recommend Actioneer Suit Jacket, Slacks and Hi-collar Shirt with a Mortimer Greatcoat. For an armour value of 6/3. EDIT:
You are wrong as well. Refer to Layering Rules, you apply the second highest rating armour. |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:17 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 11-September 04 From: French Runner Member No.: 6,652 |
Just an afterthought, though...don't you guys think "leather" means fully dressed in leather with pants and jacket? If that so, you shouldn't be able to wear them under an Armor Vest and a longcoat...
It's still 8/7 anyway... |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:21 PM
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#13
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Mistake #1: You can wear the jacket and coat together, it's just that when doing so the coat's bonus is halved but basically functions like FFBA... but only when worn with the rest of the outfit. Otherwise the coat (or any other piece) functions just like normal armor.
Mistake #2: Form-Fitting Full Body Armor includes a hood and gloves if you choose to wear them, but the armor bonus still applies without them. They're an accessory, not a requirement. Mistake #3: Using the combo in this thread, your armor rating is Ballistic 6/Impact 7 for purposes of determing your penalties to Quickness and Combat Pool. Mistake #4: You're going to look like a tool wearing mix-matched clothing like that. You're essentially wearing a bullet-proof police vest, leather clothes, and a lightweight overcoat worn by upper executives -- or a combination between a SWAT team member, a flaming homosexual at a gay biker bar, and a CEO. It's a much better idea to wear the entire Actioneer ensemble (5/3 with the Long Coat), Form-Fitting Full Body Armor (+2/+0), and Forearm Guards (+0/+1). This "only" gives you an armor rating of 7/4, but can be worn by someone with a Quickness of 4 without any penalties whatsoever -- and it doesn't make you look like a complete idiot, assuming you wear it where appropriate. |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:22 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 11-September 04 From: French Runner Member No.: 6,652 |
So according to Toturi, you can only stack two layers of armor? That's the way we've been playing...that's why I reacted to those unbelievable numbers....
My players usually go for FFBA and something on top like a 5/3 jacket or a 4/2 long coat, which gives armor ratings around 7/3 at best (+0/+1 with forearm guards) |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:24 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 11-September 04 From: French Runner Member No.: 6,652 |
You're right Doc, I can't imagine someone wearing both a coat and a jacket...looks stupid and must be horribly uncomfortable...
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Nov 15 2004, 01:25 PM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
apology accepted humble sir ombre.
yeah, but the best thing about that combination is that its wearer still looks quite sociable and not like a walking punchingbag. you retain a lot of flexibility, your weapons are easier concealed and most characters donīt lose combat pool dice...it gives those guards donning sec-armor a run for their money. and some pervert mages stack it with armor spells... |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:25 PM
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#17
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Check your Armour Layering Rules, gentlemen.
Even if you have layered 10 pieces of armour (more than one layer of armour), only the highest and next highest pieces apply. |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:26 PM
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#18
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Uhm, it's a SUIT jacket and a SUIT overcoat. They're meant to be worn together... that's why they're part of the same ensemble. It's just that when you do, the long coat only provides a +1/+1 bonus and no layering penalties. But being a long coat, it can be worn just like any other long coat (layering penalties included) and offers the same protection as the other fashionable long coats in the chapter (2/2). |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:27 PM
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#19
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Only if you're mentally ill and insist on a strict reading. Regardless, the more proper ensemble I listed above only has two pieces of armor and one improvement (the Forearm Gloves; it stacks rather than layers). |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:30 PM
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#20
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Doc, how did you get these numbers? EDIT: I wasn't refering to you, Doc F when I posted that. But as an aside, do you mean that you allow applying more than 2 sets of armour when layering? For example, do you allow Armoured Jacket, Rapid Transit Heavy Jumpsuit and FFBA Fullsuit for a total of 8/5? Canon clearly states only highest 2 layers apply though, mentally ill or not. |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:40 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
1. you are wrong doc, page 46 cc reads "components with asteriks canīt be worn together", e.g. no jacket and coat.
2. armor rating is Ballistic 6/Impact 7 for purposes of determing your penalties to Quickness and Combat Pool and thus can be worn without penalty by a quickness 6 character because a) the ballistic rating isnīt higher than 6 b) the highest rating is less than two points higher than his quickness 3. i imagine the outfit like bladeīs in blade :) --> leather clothes with an armored vest + coat (why not a vashon island actioneer line leather cloak?) --> to me this sounds pretty cool EDIT: edited for extra reading pleasure |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:50 PM
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#22
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
1. No, I'm not wrong. Those components can be worn together just fine -- just like you can wear ANY armor together. However, when doing so, you suffer the penalties for layering and halved armor ratings. But in the case of the overcoat, you don't suffer the layering penalties, only the halved armor rating... but only as part of the ensemble. Otherwise it's an ordinary overcoat, just like the others listed in the same chapter. Layering penalties included. The benefit to wearing the entire ensemble is that adding the coat when you leave the office or go out for a night on the town, you get a 50% Conceal bonus and can take the coat off and still be fully dressed. This isn't a heavy-ass trench coat. It's a lightweight overcoat. Look at any executive on a cold day. That's what it is. 2. I never said otherwise. 3. No, he wasn't wearing a light, high class designer overcoat worn with an equally fancy suit. If it were a Lined Coat or a Secure Long Coat, the outfit might work. But as it stands it looks utterly retarded.
Armor Vest 4/3 (dikote not counted, though technically it would be by your preference for a literal reading of the rules since no exception is made, but I'm not going to bother because it's equally mentally ill to do so), plus Actioneer Overcoat 2/2, plus Leather Clothing 0/2 = 6/7. I was even nice and didn't include the Forearm Guards even though they definitly should be, thus increasing the total armor to 6/8 and penaltizing a Quickness 6 character.
As long as the combination makes sense, yes. Example: Armored Clothing, Secure Ultravest, Lined Coat. Example: Form-Fitting Full Body Armor, Armored Vest with Plates, Leather Police Jacket. etc.
Only by a literal and nonsensical reading of the rules. If you somehow manage to fit three or more pieces of armor together, there's no reason in the world for it not to provide more protection (albeit with a bigger penalty to Quickness and Combat Pool) than you would with only two of those pieces. |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:52 PM
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#23
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
1) He is layering the shirt, slacks and coat, no jacket. 2) If you interprete that you need to exceed the Quickness by 2 to apply the penalties, I can see how you can come to that conclusion. However, most GMs would apply that penalty for every 2 point of armour or part thereof. It is a matter of interpretation. |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:56 PM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
no doc, you canīt wear ANY components together -> BBB page 285 "Generally only a jacket OR (emphasis mine) a coat can be layered over clothing style armor."
well, as long as thereīs no picture of the coat itīs left to the playerīs imagination if it looks good or not, so i think we donīt need to discuss that any further. Btw. it isnīt a fancy little designer coat, it says itīs no frills style so i guess itīs pretty plain... |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:57 PM
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#25
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Good god. Live in ignorance. I couldn't care less.
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