 Actioneer, Fashionable armour |
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 Nov 15 2004, 01:57 PM
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#26
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816  |
what a weak argument, shame on you!
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Nov 15 2004, 01:58 PM
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#27
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Also, the overcoat doesn't stack like normal when worn with the actioneer line, you wear it with anything else and it's applied as normal.
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Nov 15 2004, 01:59 PM
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#28
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Armour Vest 4/3 Actioneer Coat 2/2 (halved to 1/1) Leather 0/2 (halved to 0/1) Total: 5/5 Where did I go wrong? EDIT: pssst, guys, let's not argue with a Dragon. Remember the first rule of the streets: Do not deal with a Dragon. :D |
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Nov 15 2004, 01:59 PM
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#29
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
AFAIK waring both a suit jacket and overcoat is pretty common in places that have cold and/or rainy weather. Since suits are not made to withstand the cold and wearing long johns under your suit would probably not work out, you get an overcoat with a think liner (for cold weather) or just a water resistant one (for wet weather), and put it on over your suit, jacket and all picture |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:01 PM
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#30
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
yeah, ok. but if this guy would wear a jacket and not a vest heīd look like this michelin tire guy :D
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Nov 15 2004, 02:02 PM
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#31
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
That's the Armor Rating. Layering penalties are derived from the unadjusted values of all components. 4+2+0/3+2+2 = 6/7. Armor Rating for those three components alone is 5/5. |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:09 PM
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#32
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
where does it say that the long coat only stacks with the actioneer line? at the beginning of the chapter it says that components of the same line do not count as different components when worn together but they do count when worn with other armor. so it is needless to repeat that it does not count towards layering when it comes to the actioneer long coat... but they do so and i think they want to tell us that this is an exeption to the above mentioned rule, i.e. it stacks with normal armor.
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Nov 15 2004, 02:11 PM
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#33
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
I didn't say it only stacks with the Actioneer Line. The Actioneer's overcoat stacks just fine with any type of armor. HOWEVER, the layering PENALTY is only negated as part of the ensemble because it was designed to be worn with the rest of the outfit (albeit with the same armor benefits as any other coat). With any other armor, it works just like any other overcoat in that chaper (2/2 with layering penalties).
If you want to think about it in different terms, imagine the little table doesn't have any astericks and the coat provides 1/1 armor. Then the text says "the coat can be worn with other armor normally, but doing so provides an armor rating of 2/2 when not part of the rest of the Actioneer ensemble. Layering penalties are applied as normal in these cases." |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:12 PM
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#34
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
General: Captain, why are all of your powered armor troopers wearing stylish trech coats?
Captain: Sir, in addition to being stylish, they provide an additions +2/2 to the already impressive power armor. Sir! |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:14 PM
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#35
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Oh, you were talking about that. I understand now. :) |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:14 PM
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#36
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
i donīt want to be nitpicking here, but i think this power armor is hardened and no armor stacks with hardened armor, so these troopers wonīt wear the actioneer long coat...
EDIT: @doc: so why do they repeat themselves saying that it doesnīt count a a seperate item for layering armor? it has already been said before, so this has to be something special, an exeption from the general rule. |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:16 PM
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#37
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Or Captain: They look good on parade, Sir! Reminds me of the old Soviet army, didn't they wore trenchcoats for their parades? |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:23 PM
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#38
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
<exasperated sigh> Because it's an exception to the normal rule, hence them pointing out that it *is* an exception to the normal rule. They mention it because if they didn't, your initial assumption would be correct -- it would count as a layering penalty with the rest of the Actioneer ensemble and it would just be an ordinary overcoat like any of the others found in the chapter. But that's not the case because the Actioneer line comes with a custom designed overcoat that, while it still provides the same armor benefits as a regular overcoat, it doesn't suffer the layering penalties inherent to non-custom designed coats not designed to be worn with the rest of the outfit. It's all a single outfit even with the coat, even though the coat's armor rating is halved while worn just like any other coat. It's just a convoluted way of describing things. In truth, it would have been easier if they just stripped the astericks and changed the coat's rating to 1/1, but they apparently wanted the coat to still be an option for other outfits. |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:27 PM
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#39
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
just to get you right: so you think the coat gives an additional armor of only 1/1 (instead of 2/2) even when worn with the outfit?
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Nov 15 2004, 02:32 PM
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#40
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
I know it does. It provides 1/1 armor with anything you wear unless the other armor has a rating lower than 2/2, in which case it would be the dominant piece of armor. The layering penalty is only negated as part of the Actioneer ensemble, however.
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Nov 15 2004, 02:34 PM
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#41
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
but when the layering penalty (with the actioneer ensemble) of a 2/2 armor is negated itīs 2/2 not 1/1 right?
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Nov 15 2004, 02:36 PM
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#42
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
What they should have doen is described it as two different armors, one with long coat, one with the suit jacket and left it at that. No components, no negotiation.
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Nov 15 2004, 02:40 PM
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#43
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
No, it's *always* 2/2. Actioneer Line w/ Jacket but w/o Coat: 3/2 (single ensemble; no layering penalties applied). Actioneer Line w/o Jacket but w/ Coat: 4/3 (single ensemble; no layering penalties applied). Entire Actioneer Line: 3/2 + 2/2 (halved) = 5/3 (single ensemble; no layering penalties applied) Actioneer Coat w/o Actioneer Line: 2/2 (layering penalties apply) |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:48 PM
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#44
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
it doesnīt say no layering penalties apply, it says the coat doesnīt count as a seperate piece of armor, that implies that the full 2/2 is added to the armor rating.
so: the coat doesnīt work with the jacket --> proof: asterik in cc, BBB page 285 and: the full armor value is always added, even to armor pieces that donīt belong to the actioneer ensemble. |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:50 PM
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#45
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
That should be:
Actioneer Line w/ Jacket but w/o Coat: 4/2 (single ensemble; no layering penalties applied). Actioneer Line w/o Jacket but w/ Coat: 4/3 (single ensemble; no layering penalties applied). Entire Actioneer Line: No can do, Jacket and Coat may not be worn together. Actioneer Coat w/o Actioneer Line: 2/2 (layering penalties apply) |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:52 PM
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#46
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Sorry, I was going off of memory for the numbers.
Layering penalties don't apply when that's the only thing you wear because it's a single outfit. In essence, the entire Vashon Island Actioneer Line suit is just like an Armored Jacket; it provides 5/3 armor and is a single piece of armor -- with the added benefit of counting as 4/2 for purposes of layering and has a 50% Concealability bonus (and a heft pricetag compared to a Jacket). If you wear any single component from it with other armor, it, too, is a single piece of armor and suffers all the normal penalties. |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:56 PM
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#47
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
but what are those layering penalties when they arenīt applied in example 3:
Entire Actioneer Line: 4/2 + 1/1 (halved) = 5/3 (single ensemble; no layering penalties applied) where the armor rating drops??? and why do you still ignore the rule that jackets and cloak canīt be worn together (BBB page 285) remember, if they could be worn together that would mean a character could wear a long coat and an armor jacket and that just seems wrong... |
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Nov 15 2004, 02:59 PM
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#48
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
This is exactly why they included that blurb in the Actioneer's description for the coat. It *doesn't* apply for purposes of layering *penalties* when worn with the rest of the outfit. It *can* still be worn with the outfit, and its armor rating is halved due tot he use of the astericks, but there is no layering *penalty* for doing so -- it counts as a single item with an Armor Rating of 4/2 for purposes of layering with other armors... even though its actual Armor Rating is 5/3.
Because that applies to actual jackets -- like leather biker jackets -- and heavy coats -- like trench coats. Neither is the case with the Actioneer Line. It's a SUIT jacket and a LIGHT overcoat... just like what professionals wear together EVERY DAY. I know it's all really confusing. It took me a while to work it out the first time. But trust me on this one. :) |
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Nov 15 2004, 03:03 PM
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#49
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Target Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,816 |
so you say the writer put the asterisk (that means the jacket and cloak canīt be worn together) there just for fun?
EDIT: to elaborate: to me a "Any component marked with asterisks may not be worn together" is pretty clear put |
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Nov 15 2004, 03:05 PM
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#50
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
I the winter I often have (over the normal pants, shirt & tie) a vest, suit jacket, heavy scarf, AND the overcoat, and it looks pretty "normal" as far as looking like a thousand other civilians in Manhatten. On very cold days I add thermals under it all. Wearing the full Actioneer line with FFBA under it shouldn't look any different than any other corporate suit out there. I will say wearing a leather jacket in that ensemble would look distinctly odd. The forearm guards also would look a touch odd, depending on how much they make your arms look like Popeye's.
There is no mysterious force physically preventing you from wearing the jacket with the long coat. :) You just have to pick one or the other to get the special benefits of the Actioneer line. The other piece I'd say layers exactly as any non-Actioneer armor worn with that suit. -karma |
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