 Forearm Snap Blades and skill, What to use? |
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 Nov 17 2004, 01:29 AM
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#1
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375  |
Up until a few months ago I assumed that the Cyber Implant Weaponry skill was used for the forearm snap blades (because IMO they simulate cyberspurs). On an old thread, it was suggested that the Edged Weapons Skill should be used. This may seems like a no brainer to me but I've been wrong about things like this in the past.
What do you think? |
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Nov 17 2004, 01:44 AM
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#2
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
I'm pretty sure it's Unarmed Combat, just like with Hardliner Gloves and Shock Gloves.
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Nov 17 2004, 01:45 AM
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#3
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Since they aren't actually implants, I would rule that Edged Weapons would cover them.
[edit] I didn't consider Doc Funk's solution, which could also work. :D [/edit] |
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Nov 17 2004, 01:47 AM
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#4
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Oh crap. Now I have three options. Would you accept a martial art in the place of Unarmed Combat?
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Nov 17 2004, 01:49 AM
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#5
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Of course. The Martial Arts Skills replace Unarmed Combat.
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Nov 17 2004, 01:58 AM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
So...when I go to crank out my next combat mage I can use Unrmed Combat, Martial Arts, or Edged Weapons (assuming of course I can find a GM IRL or DS to approve it) to use forearm snap blades?
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Nov 17 2004, 02:02 AM
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#7
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Eh, if you want. It's really up to the GM since I don't think they ever strictly say which skill they're used by. But, wait, lemme check something real quick...
Okay, yeah, the SR3 p. 275 actually lists them as Edged Weapons (they're in that group). If it was in the Other category, you'd be able to use the Unarmed Combat routine. My mistake for going off memory/house rules in the past. Sorry. :) You can always ask the GM, though... I know I've allowed it in the past. |
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Nov 17 2004, 02:03 AM
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#8
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Snap Blades do not qualify for the dual-implant melee rules, right?
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Nov 17 2004, 02:04 AM
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#9
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
No change in the Cannon Companion either. So it is really an Edged Weapon.
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Nov 17 2004, 02:04 AM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
They most certainly should. They're the same thing as Spurs, just strapped on instead of built-in.
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Nov 17 2004, 02:06 AM
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#11
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
No, they do not. Only cyber-implant melee weapons get that bonus.
EDIT: Sorry Funk, I edited just a tad quicker. |
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Nov 17 2004, 02:06 AM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,326 Joined: 15-April 02 Member No.: 2,600 |
And using an entirely different skill. Sometimes this game just makes my head hurt. It just goes back to my theory that game designers don't play the game. |
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Nov 17 2004, 02:08 AM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
The fact that I got opposite answers in two posts was why I asked. I could easily see it going both ways.
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Nov 17 2004, 02:09 AM
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#14
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
No, only the section header says that. The actual text (SR3 p. 121) says, "Characters using two cyber-implant melee weapons get to add 1/2 their Strength attribute, rounded down, to the Power of their attack." Yes, it says "cyber-implant melee weapons" but any GM who is that strict deserves to be smacked upside the head since Forearm Snap Blades *are* Spurs for all intents and purposes except convenience which they give up for in exchange for no Essence and slightly cheaper pricetag. EDIT: Bah. I'm getting slow in my old age. Screw it -- ask the GM. :) |
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Nov 17 2004, 02:13 AM
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#15
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Of course, that's the ultimate answer to every question. :) |
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Nov 17 2004, 03:42 AM
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#16
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
So to sum up, by canon, you should use the Edged Weapons skill. You should not--again, by canon--get the strength bonus for dual snap blades (even though it makes no sense not to).
As a player I like the idea of the Edge Weapons rule even though as a GM I would rule its CIW and I'd let the strength bonus count. Its a head scratcher to be sure... |
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Nov 17 2004, 03:54 AM
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#17
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That's how I see it. :) |
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Nov 17 2004, 04:31 AM
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#18
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
And sometimes canon should be kindly be shown out the door... or if not, then dragged out by its feet by Binky the Troll bouncer who will show that bodies actually bounce when thrown far and high enough... |
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Nov 17 2004, 04:38 AM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Cute picture but what do you think? Edit to former post: As a player I like the idea of the Edge Weapons rule even though as a GM I would rule its CIW and I'd let the strength bonus count even if I allowed the Edged Weapons rule./ |
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Nov 17 2004, 05:14 AM
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#20
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Bah, you mean I have to say something insightful too?
Wasn't there some rule in canon companion about using two melee weapons? Shouldn't that be enough? But if you want to be picky, I'd have to say no to the strength bonus. The cyberspurs have the advantage of being set into the bones and gaining the advantage that it's easily an extension of a person. The strap-ons (ergh, that sounds kinda XXX :grinbig:) are that, strapped on and not as effecient as the cyber spurs. Other question... two handed melee skill from the cannon companion? Off hand melee? And does that also need to apply to one with cyberspurs? Though, it's true, it is advanced rules and one does not have to use them. |
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Nov 17 2004, 05:35 AM
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#21
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
So a Forearm Snap Blade should be 100% as effective as a Retractable Spur *only* if you use one of them at a time? But the moment you use two, bam, the Spur gains some magical (and highly significant) advantage for... well... no reason in particular? :)
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Nov 17 2004, 05:40 AM
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#22
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Heh, ya got me on that. I just never viewed the snap blades as good as the real thing. But yeah, it just doesn't make sense with the one at a time does it? Hmm... given that, oh hell, give it to them. Let them have the strength bonus, I don't care, I don't GM. :-P But then, I think anybody using two melee weapons should get a strength bonus. If you allow spurs, but then why not a pair of katanas or handaxes? What's so special about the spurs? edit: oh yeah, the magical reason... the essence loss and nuyen payment, and the biggest thing of all... it's up to the GM. :rotfl: |
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Nov 17 2004, 08:50 AM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Canonically, they might use the Edged Weapons skill, but personally, I think the Cyber-Implant Combat skill fits them better. That skill is described as "Combining the quick strikes of edged-weapon fighting with the in-your-face style of unarmed combat." My opinion is that cyber-implant combat should be used for any kind of weapon that would use the same style as a cyber implant weapon. In other words, things like ninja climbing claws or spiked brass nucks would fall under this category as well. I would give forearm snap blades the same bonuses as spurs when used in pairs - they are essentially the non-cyber version of the exact same weapon.
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Nov 17 2004, 10:27 AM
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#24
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
If you are going to give bonus to all kinds of non-implanted weaponry, how do you justify the dual-knife weilding warrior not getting the same bonus?
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Nov 17 2004, 11:03 AM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Loughborough, UK Member No.: 1,321 |
I never really got my head around the difference between dual-wielding C-I weapons and, well, any other weapon. The former gives you a boost to strength while the latter requires either another skill or high levels of Ambidexterity, and gives you more dice.
I work it thus: actually implanted C-I weapons (razors and spurs) give +50% Strength when used as a pair without off-hand skills. If you're ambidextrous (+6/+8 ) or have an offhand C-I combat skill, you can choose between either using the above to increase the power, or to add half the off-hand skill (or base skill again) to get more dice for the combat, but not both. Any other combination (including Snap Blades) only gets the two-handed-combat option as in Cannon Companion. I justify this on the fact that, as snap blades are not implanted, they do not provide the leverage garnered from being anchored to the user's skeletal structure. However, I would let a Snap Blade user default to C-I Combat or a Spurs specialisation at -1 to the usual TN modifiers for defaulting due to the inherent similarities between the two weapons. And if the player then Rule-of-Ones, I'd snap his forearms as he puts too much leverage through it. :D -JH. |
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