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> Ghouls and Cybereyes, Do they cure their blindness?
Signal
post Nov 17 2004, 03:52 AM
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I'm trying my hand at GMing at the moment and I have a player who wishes to make a Ghoul character. When he submitted his finished character sheet and I looked at it, I saw he had a pair of cybereyes. And this is where we got into conflict with the rules about Ghouls...

On page 34 of the Shadowrun Companion is the "Ghoul Characteristics Table" listing all the things that affect your character sheet by being a Ghoul character. One of the things listed on that table is: "Blind Flaw (see p. 19)"

In the Edges and Flaws section of the book (page 19), under "Blind", first paragraph, last sentence: "Cyber-replacement eyes cannot correct the Blind Flaw."

HOWEVER...

On page 33 of the Shadowrun Companion, second paragraph, it reads: "All Ghouls suffer from a degree of physical blindness. However, their dual nature allows them to see perfectly well on the astral plane. Ghouls cannot see colors or fine details in non-living objects, which keeps them from making effective use of most technological devices. Many of the more socially adapted Ghouls use eybereyes to overcome this problem, provided they can find a street doc willing to implant cyberware in a ghoul."

(Emphasis is mine)

HOWEVER...

On the same page earlier in the same paragraph it reads: "Almost all ghouls who remain functional members of society hide their condition through a combination of perfumes [...] plastic surgery [...] and cybereyes."

(Emphasis is mine)

So that could mean that the only reason Ghouls get cybereyes in the first place is to blend in with society better.

Nevertheless, I've opted to post the question here on the Dumpshock forums so hopefully long-time vets and those who've memorized more of the rules could let us know what is the best answer. Thank you for your assistance.
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Ol' Scratch
post Nov 17 2004, 03:54 AM
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Quick Answer: Ghouls are a special case. They have the Blind flaw, but have the option to get cybereyes (at double their Essence due to their Sensitive System) to overcome it. Others with the Blind flaw do not have that option.
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Fortune
post Nov 17 2004, 03:57 AM
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What Doc said! :)
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Cain
post Nov 17 2004, 05:36 AM
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Yah. Special case rules always trump the general ones, and the ghoul flaw is a special case.
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Snow_Fox
post Nov 17 2004, 12:26 PM
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More correctly, special rules correct sloppy editing.
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toturi
post Nov 17 2004, 12:36 PM
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Actually, Ghouls can overcome their Blindness with cyber eyes but others with the Blind Flaw are expressedly forbidden from this.

Unless of course, you rule that while NPC ghouls could overcome their Blindness, PCs cannot as a special exception to the general rule to applying the rules equally on both PCs and NPCs.
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hyzmarca
post Nov 17 2004, 01:07 PM
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By the strictest interperation of canon, a character who has both of his eyes gouged out with a spork during a run suffers no penalities because of it, since he can always have them replaced.
This would make sense under the theory that linear time is an illusion and doing something next week is really the same as going it today. However, for those of us who experience time linearly, it makes sense that a character would not be able to see so long as he has no eyes.

The way I see it, ghouls are no different. The reason the blind flaw is permenant is that taking it is essentialy selling a character's sight for BP. If there is no BP or counterbalancing edge gained, then there is no reason to not allow replacements.

When Joe Sammie drinks a little too much and wakes up with a hangover and two holes where his cybereyes should be he should be blind but he should habe the option to get medical treatment.

When Lou Wageslave contracts HMHVV and becomes a ghoul, he should be blind but he should have the option to get medical treatment.

When Player A decides to get a few extra BP by making Tammy Rigger blind and uses those points to get an extra 350,000 nuyen, he shouldn't be able to remove all penalities by droping a few thousand nuyen on eyes that are superior to the originals anyway.
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Ol' Scratch
post Nov 17 2004, 02:11 PM
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No, you can be blind without the Blind flaw and suffer the penalties therein. The difference is that you don't get any points for it because you can get them replaced. You'll note that Ghouls don't get any points for their Blind flaw, either. (In fact, you have to pay out the ass just for the honor of being a creature who should cost negative build points if you add everything up.)
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ES_Riddle
post Nov 17 2004, 03:40 PM
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Ah, blind characters without the blind flaw…reminds me of my starting ex-wagemage whose corp had repossessed "their" eyes and headware memory when he left.
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Edward
post Nov 17 2004, 04:10 PM
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My riger (timothy carter the ex astechnolegy rigger, overly protective of his 12 year old bunny girl daughter. Been mentioned hear a few times before) was born blind. But by the start of play he had had cyber eyes installed. But it was noticeable that he did not understand the difference some users feel between there real and cyber eyes as his real ones never worked anyway.

Edward
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Rev
post Nov 17 2004, 06:24 PM
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I think that strictly by the rules it is meant that ghouls can get cybereyes to cure their blindness, but probably not PC ghouls (heh). Isn't there an optional rule in there for buying off a flaw with karma? I think a PC ghoul should have to get cybereyes and buy off the flaw (is it 10x point cost? that would be 20 for ghoul blindness I think).
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