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> Tactical Computer, Some questions
GrinderTheTroll
post Nov 18 2004, 05:44 PM
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I was reading the text in MM.47 on the TacComputer and am confused about a few things, maybe you all can shed some light on them.

Here's the way I understand it:

You get 5 "free" ports for your 5 basic sences (smell, sight, taste, touch, sound). There is no essence cost or requirement for these.

You can get either:

A dedicated port that is "locked" into using some data input sorce (radio, telephone, etc.) and cost .1 essence and 10,000 nuyen each.

OR

A generic port that can be reassigned to other sources on the fly, costs .1 essence , only 5,000 nuyen, but requires a 50MP "tactal sense" program to understand the input. Basically it's cheaper but requires a hardware driver.

My confusion is the wording of the text that makes me unsure if *ALL* ports (free, dedicated or generic) would require the 50MP programs to function. This would make no sense based soley on the fact that a dynamic generic port would be cheaper that a dedicated port.

Is my inital read correct on this? Any thoughts or comments?

Thanks.
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tjn
post Nov 18 2004, 05:48 PM
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Dedicated port is 10k

Generic port is 5k
Program required is 5k.
Together that's 10k.

I think it's safe to assume that the Dedicated port already comes with the program. Could be wrong though.
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Tanka
post Nov 18 2004, 05:56 PM
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It does.

If you'll have multiple senses that are the same thing (from different people, for example), then it's better to use Generic ports. It ends up being cheaper by 5k per repeated sense.
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GaiasWrath8
post Nov 18 2004, 05:58 PM
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Is it just me or did the tack computer get totaly redone in 3rd edition.

I usto love this thing, and to be hoenst, now I can not understand it. What are the benifits of using this thing now?

I don't even remeber this port thing from 2nd edition...
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Fortune
post Nov 18 2004, 05:58 PM
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As far as I know, that is correct. The advantage of the Generic Port is that it can be reassigned ... but each time it is assigned to a new sense the appropriate program has to be run. The Dedicated Port can't be reassigned, but it already has the program hard-wired, so no additional software is required.
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Fortune
post Nov 18 2004, 06:01 PM
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QUOTE (GaiasWrath8)
What are the benifits of using this thing now?

IIRC ... Up to 4 additional Combat Pool dice, plus a bonus to your Small Unit Tactics skill. And, of course, the fact that it can interface with the BattleTac system.
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Tanka
post Nov 18 2004, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE (GaiasWrath8 @ Nov 18 2004, 12:58 PM)
Is it just me or did the tack computer get totaly redone in 3rd edition.

I usto love this thing, and to be hoenst, now I can not understand it. What are the benifits of using this thing now?

I don't even remeber this port thing from 2nd edition...

Yup, it got redone.

Benefits? Up to +4 to Combat Pool, added dice equal to 1/2 level (I think) in Small Unit Tactics.

Nope, no ports in 2nd. You just handed out the link and went along.
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mfb
post Nov 18 2004, 06:11 PM
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indeed. every two senses you have linked to the taccomp (including teammate sensory input via radio) adds one level to the taccomp's effective rating. each level gives +1 CP (max 4), +1 die to SUT, and lets you use a cumulative 25% of your CP on surprise tests. in addition, the taccomp can, with a modification, act as a battletac master unit.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 18 2004, 06:34 PM
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If you can afford it, a TacComp really shines in the hands of a Rigger.

~J
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GrinderTheTroll
post Nov 18 2004, 06:38 PM
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Yeah that's what I figured, but the text doesn't make it explicitly clear.

If you add an Orientation System, it counts as 2 senses, that'll almost always buy you an automatic Rating to the TacComputer, just need 6 more inputs to get it up to the max +4.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Nov 18 2004, 06:40 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
If you can afford it, a TacComp really shines in the hands of a Rigger.

~J

Each Sensor Rating point of an vehicle attached as an input counts as a sense. Fire up the Sensor Blimp!
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GaiasWrath8
post Nov 18 2004, 06:59 PM
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ohhh, So its less a Street Sam item now and more a rigger item. I can see how this would work well for a Rigger.
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Teulisch
post Nov 18 2004, 07:01 PM
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I just assume ill never have one, due to the cost ($ and essence).

dedicated ports your typical sam would have to add (commlink/radio, orientation system*, thero, low light, ultrasound, and a generic for the datajack) mean you need about 2.1 essence (+.25 for the orientation system), a whopping 1.26 essence of betaware is more than many can afford to add.
So you need to figure cost for upgrading most everything else to beta, so as to make some room with an essence hole (and the worst .01 essence sam can get 1.49 back by upgrading all his alpha to beta). and the betaware computer, with a SI of 4, will cost over 7 million. If i get that kind of nuyen all at once, im not upgradin, im going legit.

as far as effects go, the above would likely have 8 senses that applied in most situations, enough for the 4 combat pool (100% for suprise) and +4 to small unit tactics (giving you the skill at 4 if you dont have it).

the key here is 'if you can afford it'.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Nov 18 2004, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (Teulisch)
I just assume ill never have one, due to the cost ($ and essence).

dedicated ports your typical sam would have to add (commlink/radio, orientation system*, thero, low light, ultrasound, and a generic for the datajack) mean you need about 2.1 essence (+.25 for the orientation system), a whopping 1.26 essence of betaware is more than many can afford to add.
So you need to figure cost for upgrading most everything else to beta, so as to make some room with an essence hole (and the worst .01 essence sam can get 1.49 back by upgrading all his alpha to beta). and the betaware computer, with a SI of 4, will cost over 7 million. If i get that kind of nuyen all at once, im not upgradin, im going legit.

as far as effects go, the above would likely have 8 senses that applied in most situations, enough for the 4 combat pool (100% for suprise) and +4 to small unit tactics (giving you the skill at 4 if you dont have it).

the key here is 'if you can afford it'.

Cheaper essence route is to stick the TacComp in a CyberLeg (along with a ton of other goodies if you are going the rigger route). Then all you'd need to worry about would be the typical CyberEyes, OrientSys, CyberEyes, etc. You could do it with 1mil Tech at chargen.
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GaiasWrath8
post Nov 18 2004, 07:14 PM
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Well this is all cool info, but...

small unit tactics? I read this once and thought it sucked. What benifits does it give?
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 18 2004, 07:15 PM
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Adds to either initiative or combat pool as desired. Really quite useful in a decent-sized group.

~J
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Moon-Hawk
post Nov 18 2004, 07:18 PM
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MM pg 47.
Basically it gives an initiative boost to the whole team. Usually somewhere between +1 and +4, depending on a lot.

I have a couple questions regarding this, though.
1) What is the TN to communicate orders to yourself (it does specify that the person with tactics gets the same bonus as the team)
2a) Can you use this skill with an "army of one". Is one person still a small unit? If not, why does having a friend show up, even if they don't understand your orders one bit (since everyone has a different TN), make you faster?
2b) If 2a=yes, would there be no action to communicate info to yourself?
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GrinderTheTroll
post Nov 18 2004, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
MM pg 47.
Basically it gives an initiative boost to the whole team. Usually somewhere between +1 and +4, depending on a lot.

I have a couple questions regarding this, though.
1) What is the TN to communicate orders to yourself (it does specify that the person with tactics gets the same bonus as the team)
2a) Can you use this skill with an "army of one". Is one person still a small unit? If not, why does having a friend show up, even if they don't understand your orders one bit (since everyone has a different TN), make you faster?
2b) If 2a=yes, would there be no action to communicate info to yourself?

The infor on SUT is in both MM and CC, might be the best place to look.

Basically, the more informed your associates are (radios, battletac, LOS, etc) the easier it is to give them the bonus (Lower TN for the SUT roll).

As it's been said, it can really turn the tide if the conditions are right.
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Moon-Hawk
post Nov 18 2004, 07:34 PM
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Thanks, that answers 2a & 2b. Yes, and no action whatsoever, for those of you following along at home. But what about #1? What's the TN to give yourself orders?
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GaiasWrath8
post Nov 18 2004, 07:39 PM
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Is using this skill a Simple action or a free action?
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Moon-Hawk
post Nov 18 2004, 07:41 PM
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Complex action, unless you're communicating via battletac cyberlink, in which case it's a simple action, unless you're just doing this to boost yourself and screw everyone else, then it's no action.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 18 2004, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
Thanks, that answers 2a & 2b. Yes, and no action whatsoever, for those of you following along at home. But what about #1? What's the TN to give yourself orders?

4, IIRC.

~J
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GrinderTheTroll
post Nov 18 2004, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
Complex action, unless you're communicating via battletac cyberlink, in which case it's a simple action.

Also has to be done on the last action you have available for the Combat Turn. So without a BatteTac unit (making a simple action), you are sacrificing one of you actions to hopefully give your team a boost to theirs.

Every 2 successes add +1 to their initiatives for the next combat turn. SUT 6 + 4 from the TacComp could potentially yield +5 Initiative.
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Moon-Hawk
post Nov 18 2004, 07:59 PM
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Kagetenshi: Yeah, that's the TN for direct face to face contact. But if they're using battletac they get a -1 to their TN, and if you're communicating with a battletac cyberlink their TN is -2, so their TN is lower than yours? That's the part that leaves me scratching my head. The battletac cyberlink just helps you communicate orders, it doesn't help you generate better orders, so there's no reason for you to get a bonus by having a battletac cyberlink but not be talking to anyone, so is the TN to give other people orders actually less than yours? I was thinking that if it's easy enough to get the TN to give others orders is 2, that that should be the TN to use this skill on yourself. Thoughts?
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Tanka
post Nov 18 2004, 08:16 PM
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The Cyberlink is an image overlay of a map with a bunch of stuff that gives info, aiding your directions by letting them visualize it.

The non-cyber link is a unit on the arm of armor or somesuch place that does the same as the cyber version.
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