Forming a company?, How? would you gain much? Options

[Baron Sameday]

As a runner how would you go about forming a company? Would it gain you much?

Could you use as a "face" for buying shops? Lowering street index on "some" kit and making it easy to obtain "some" higher level items?


It would have to be a shell and linked to a false SID, but what if you then sold the shares (to your self or team) and changed the CEO etc. Whats the link between the comapny and the real owner ?

Just an idea dont really know how it would work or what you would gain.

[Backgammon]

What kind of company? It's doable, but takes a lot of work. That's like a submarine sticking his periscope over the water surface. It's a link that can be spotted by enemies and used to discover the runner. Advantages do include the possibility to obtain permits and gear legally, and the all useful money-laudering scheme. Hey, you might even turn up some profits from it!

[Cray74]

I recall forming a security company and using it to rip off the employers, mostly by looting a lot of security gear destined for the employer's facility. It's a sort of run I haven't seen repeated because it was so bloody complicated. Faking backgrounds, setting up patsies, having the PCs get away with it in plain sight (their rep as a security company was ruined when the 'gang' stole the gear), hiring the hitmen to close up loose ends, laundering the money...

It was a LOT of money, but there's easier ways to get that rich as a runner.

[Baron Sameday]

An example could be a computer hardware/software company. Listed as having 3 or 4 staff, that writes low level ICE software. The would use cyberdecks, timeshare on mainframes and even some basic decking utils (permits needed)

The players pay for the company to be formed on a "clean" but dumpable SID. Then could they sell shares (could the do that ?) to other clean SId's.

Where would it be recored who owns what ?

Now with there company formed they start ordering kit etc. Now they might have to have false accounts made etc ? pay TAX!!!!!

Then what to stop the company from spreading out into other areas ? Whats sort of size would a company have to be to obtain permits for the fun toys?

Just an idea. As a player I spend lots time trying to work out who or what really owns the "ma and pa" company I am just about to hit. Could I not spin there game the other way :)

[Backgammon]

1) WTF is a SID, anyway? You mean SIN?

Yes, they could make their company go public and sell shares. However, the process of going public is very complex and I don't really know enough to talk bout it, but keep in mind that once you go public, the company is no longer yours. You have to do what shareholders and the Board tells you to do. Doesn't seem like something shadowrunners would enjoy, as being public would pretty much shred any possibilities of illegal activities.

"Where would it be recored who owns what ?"
With the governement where you got your charter from. I.e. you get a business charter to run a company in the UCAS, the UCAS knows who owns your business (which could very well be a shell company... there are ways to obfuscate who owns what, the Megas know them all)

"Now with there company formed they start ordering kit etc. Now they might have to have false accounts made etc ? pay TAX!!!!!"
Yup. Unless they have a tax evasion scheme going.

"Then what to stop the company from spreading out into other areas ? "
Nothing, really. All you need is a charter. Costs like 1000$ is all.

"Whats sort of size would a company have to be to obtain permits for the fun toys?"
This I don't know. You probably have to apply for one, some comittee somewhere investigates you, and you granted one or not. Bribes could simplify the process, though getting a permit to acquire the likes of nerve gas is NOT going to be easy.

[Moonstone Spider]

I would see this as an entire campaign in and of itself. The shadowrunner team would need skills very different from normal shadowrunners, you need skills like accounting to reduce taxes and a charisma-linked advertising skill for PR and convincing people to buy your products. Then about a dozen B/R and background skills to design whatever you're making. Then you'd need a more "Normal" shadowrunner to deal with the inevitable hostile takeovers and shadowrunners that are going to want to steal your products. Lastly you'd need facilities for building what you've got, may houserule a Rated facility that can produce Rating items per test.

And, of course, you can always skip or reduce the B/R by stealing paydata from your rivals and just modifying enough to have plausible deniability.

Actually that could be a very fun campaign to run. Maybe somebody will start one here.

[Cynic project]

Or you could do a doughnut shop/chain. It wouldn't really even need to make money.You could use it as a front for small time things. You know have people pay cash,and remarkable sell a lot of doughnuts....

[Moonstone Spider]

Yeah, just find a Shadowrunner with a high level doughnut baking skill and you're off.

Hmm, how much would a doughnut kit cost? Would that be considered general tools? How many doughnuts could you make in a doughnut facility?

[Kagetenshi]

[DrJest]

My first character did this once. Pulled in a favour from a UCAS Intelligence officer he did some work for to get a bunch of security licences and registered himself as as a security firm. Within a short time, he was selling "employee" status in the firm to reputable shadowrunners so they could benefit from the licences as well.

Weird to weirder - he started getting calls from perfectly legit people wanting security experts. Was going to fob them off, then thought - I have this large pool of expert and reputable talent, right? There's got to be someone who fits the bill.

By the time he retired because nobody would let me play him any more (besides, the name thing was getting a little awkward), it was simple to rationalise him "going legit" and doing a little fixing and talismongering on the side.

[Fortune]

The runner in question would not really need any business-related skills. He'd just have to hire someone with the appropriate skill set to run the company/do the books/design and market the product.

A good book that illustrates this type of thing in similar circumstances is Frederic Forsyth's 'The Dogs of War'.

[Siege]

It would depend on the reason and purpose of the business - if the runner has a legal SIN, I would imagine getting a small business license would be a lot easier.

Possible benefits include:

1. money laundering
2. Access to unusual gear without raising eyebrows - automated sewing machines for disguises? Equipment to repaint a vehicle?
3. Just the catalogs I get for my current job are enough to make an enterprising runner go "Hmmmm."
4. A convenient front for doing business and a viable cover if questioned

Of course, there are always the quasi-legal jobs that just scream "Runner!" like bank repossession and bail bondsmen - which is another thread unto itself.

-Siege

[Siege]

Well, not to mention skills like "Accounting" and "Small Business 101" would fall under knowledge skills which are very chippable.

-Siege

[Voran]

I imagine this sort of setup is about 1 step higher than my characters have tended to go. While it is a risk to set down roots or semi-permanent connections, there are benefits from investing your money and becoming a silent partner in businesses such as hotels, clubs and community clinics / lore shops. I don't think I have any characters that own businesses outright. But they've stacked the deck in their favor by buying alot of support from people who down own and run businesses.

[Crusher Bob]

Forming a company starts with a 'public' decleraqtion, filed with the appropriate government office. It's usually a simple document, naming the company and saying who the shareholders (owners are) and who the company officers (directors, secretary, etc) are. You pay a small fee, and congrats, you ahve a company.

This allows you to do stuff like rent offices, take out utilitites, etc in the company name, rather than the name of a person. Depending on what the company actually wants to do, it might need other licenses (security, foreign exchange, banking, investigation, etc). The 'action' licenses usually already require an established company with a company address, so you'll probably need to rent an office for a month before applying for some of the stickier licenses. The license requirements might be pretty stiff, or could just be a few pages of parper work and a small fee, depends on what you are applying for. Then comes the wait for license approval. The first approval of the license can take a while ~1 month, with the license usually being good for 1 year. It's much easier to renew the license once you've actually gotten it.

Then comes the work of acutally runing the company...

[Solstice]

I had an idea. A runner has a legit extermination buisness and uses it to 1) make legit nuyen 2) scope out sec schemes and sell them in the shadows 3) place runners in corp facilities for a steep fee 4) maybe do some espionage datagrabs of his own.

What do you think?

[Crusher Bob]

For an extermination business I'd assume you would need a license, which should not be too hard to get (probably requires some classes or similar). The main problem lies in the taxes and records. You will need to pull in enough money to justify keeping the business afloat (i.e. employees, office rent, material costs, etc) this will probably require plenty of time.

Places usually schedule extermination once every six months to a year, though you might be able to 'make business' for yourself by releasing pests near likely targets, though this might make them suspicious.

To run the business himself your character should probably have the 'business' knowledge skill of 2-3 (more to cook the books) and the knowledge skill of 'exterminator' of 2+ (depends on how good an exterminator you want to be. Related skills are probably chemistry, animals (pests), and architecture

[Siege]

Bah, you think too small.

Become a locksmith!

Never, ever hit any of your own clients, but just the insights and the access to gear you'll have is phenomenal! :grinbig:

Not to mention if you ever get busted carrying a maglock passkey, whip out your business card and a fabricated order...

-Siege

[hyzmarca]

Start a lawfrim. With the proper contracts, regestration, and paperwork a partnership can be just as much of a buffer as a corporation. As a lawyer, you could get all types of powerful connections ranging from legit corp and government types who are going through a divorce to those high ranking orignized crime figures who need a highly unethical defense team. You'll have built in portaction from the Star and if you decided to double as a PI/security firm could get some great permits (All lawfirms should employ PIs, anyway.)
On the side, you could do fixing.

All it really takes in the college education edge, a lot of legal knowledge skills, and a permissive GM.

[Backgammon]

Well, at some point you gotta ask yourself, what's a guy who can run a succesful business doing as a shadowrunner?

[Kagetenshi]

Making a lot more money for a lot less stress.

~J

[Siege]

It depends on why the guy runs in the first place.

And making a small business successful is not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

A couple grand for an evening's worth of work, plus excitement, adrenaline and the chance to play with guns and loot even more stuff...the potential is there.

-Siege

[hyzmarca]

I've recently considered making a character based on Cobra Commander in his early years. A charismatic lawyer and businessman who's long term goal in life is to create a private army powerful enough to conquer the world.
That takes time, effort, and a lot of criminal actions while stradling two worlds. You don't meet mad scientists on the streets and you don't meet crazy Austrailian gangers in corporate circles. I have no idea where you meet armorers/generals in shiny silver masks but I'm sure it requires something shadowy.

[Siege]

Bah - you can assign contacts with edges and flaws.

Gunsmith (or Armorer): Flaw -4 must wear a shiny chrome facemask all the time.

Flaw -2: Must date woman in black glasses with hideous accent

-Siege

[Solstice]