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> Magnetic Limbs
Tarantula
post Nov 30 2004, 09:07 PM
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Just a question, say you have a character with 2 magnetic limb systems installed in his legs. And they have enough magnetic pull for him to hang from them without any other equipment.

He has a large steel wall in front of him, and he wants to run up it. Would you reduce his max running distance for having to run against the pull of gravity as well, or leave it the same? If you would reduce the distance, by how much?
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Ol' Scratch
post Nov 30 2004, 09:14 PM
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I'd use the rules for Climbing, but with a significantly lower TN and normal walking speed.

Good luck finding anything to use those on, though. They're all but useless in the 60's.
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Tarantula
post Nov 30 2004, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
I'd use the rules for Climbing, but with a significantly lower TN and normal walking speed.

Good luck finding anything to use those on, though. They're all but useless in the 60's.

It does say most building support beams are ferrous, as well as larger vehicles (side of a semi trailer anyone?)
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hyzmarca
post Nov 30 2004, 09:24 PM
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Traction is amimportant consideration. His ability to stick to the wall and his ability to run up is is determined by the force of friction . Friction equals the magnetic force holding him to the wall multiplied by the coeffiecient of kenetic friction of the wall and his shoes. If the wall is coarse, his magnets are strong, and his shoes have good traction, then he should be able to walk up the wall without any trouble. If the wall is smooth and he has too little friction, he'll be unable to walk up at all. He'll simply slide down.

Since the magnets are strong enough for him to hand from, that must produce a force at least equal to his weight, so the only factor is friction. Because the coefficient of kenetic friction is always less than one, he will not have the full force of his magnets supporting him against gravity.

My recomendation is to reduce his max distance depending on the friction of his shoes against the wall.

EDIT: If you mean that he can hand from this wall using his magnets, and not just from a ceiling, then he certainly can run up it with no difficulty. He doesn't have to defeat gravity if friction does it for him.
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Tarantula
post Nov 30 2004, 09:29 PM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca)
My recomendation is to reduce his max distance depending on the friction of his shoes against the wall.

EDIT: If you mean that he can hand from this wall using his magnets, and not just from a ceiling, then he certainly can run up it with no difficulty. He doesn't have to defeat gravity if friction does it for him.

I meant that the magnets provide over his current weight in force. The book says magnetic systems provide 25kg of force per system, only having 2 for each leg would mean his total weight is under 50kg. (Say hes short and scrawny maybe).

Would you have a simpler solution for those of us not into calculation the friction of his track shoes vs his hiking boots vs his combat boots vs bare foot vs bare cyber foot etc etc?
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hyzmarca
post Nov 30 2004, 09:40 PM
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Considering that there is no possible way to calculate the friction of a fictional wall, just make it up. Make a TN mod to his athletics test depending on how much effort you believe he needs to put into it. If he fails the athletics test, he slides back down. Alternativly, require a threshhold for the athletics test depending on the effort he has to make. For every die the he beats the threshhold he moves a certain number of meters based on his quickness (I don't remember the runnign rules off the top of my head) and for every die below the thredhold he slips a number of meters based on his body.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Nov 30 2004, 09:42 PM
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Really simple answer: tell him that the wall in not magnetic.

Easy math with chance of success: Look at how much a single leg in question can hold up. Multiply by .9 to indicate the extra forces of moving up without actually finding any real value. If that number is greater than or equal to the total mass of the PC in question, he can use normal walking speed with an athletics (climbing) test to increase his effective quickness for going up. If it is not enough weight, that give him a base wall-walking speed of quickness/2 (shuffling along) and halve the successes if he tries to use the above speed increase option.

If he asks why that's your ruling, tell him some random person online said it would be easier than finding out the real answers.
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Tarantula
post Nov 30 2004, 09:43 PM
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Let me clarify why I thought he would have a modifier. The friction and the wall are irrelevant, he can stick to it, and run around on it.

My reasoning for why he would have a reduced running distance is rather than pulling him into the ground, gravity is pulling him opposite to the direction he is running. It'd be about the same as trying to run into a very strong headwind.
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hyzmarca
post Nov 30 2004, 10:06 PM
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QUOTE (Tarantula @ Nov 30 2004, 04:43 PM)
Let me clarify why I thought he would have a modifier.  The friction and the wall are irrelevant, he can stick to it, and run around on it.

My reasoning for why he would have a reduced running distance is rather than pulling him into the ground, gravity is pulling him opposite to the direction he is running.  It'd be about the same as trying to run into a very strong headwind.

The analogy is pretty much correct, but in both cases there are countless varriables to account for. Friction is simply the easiest variable to account for and the most important in both cases. If you don't have enough friction you're not able to run period. It is friction that propells you forward. Friction also helps you fight against a headwind just as it helps you fight against gravtity. It fights against gravity's pull and the wind's push. If you won't have enough friction, a headwind will send you flying backwards just as gravity will pull you down.

He should have reduced running distance and he should have to make an effort to run up the wall, hence an athletics test.

Incidently, gravity isn't very strong if he is very light. It is only (9.8m/s) x (mass) Since his mass less than 50kg then the force of gravity is less than 490 Newtons. A good headwind can beat that.
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Sahandrian
post Nov 30 2004, 10:09 PM
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Okay, so his legs can stick to the wall without him falling off. My only thought is, doesn't having the rest of his body weight hanging down behind him make it very, very awkward, if not impossible?
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hyzmarca
post Nov 30 2004, 10:13 PM
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Awkward, yes, but no more impossible that performing a situp. If he knows how to manipulate his center of mass and has decent strength in his back and abdomen it should only be mildly uncomfortable.

The knees would be a problem, but he has cyberlegs. I'm sure they can be locked in place.
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Aku
post Nov 30 2004, 10:16 PM
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i would imagine so, as despite the legs working with gravity towards your soles, the rest of your body has to account for it. I would think some sort of magnetic hand/feet combo would be more useful for easier climbing, and movement.
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Tarantula
post Nov 30 2004, 10:39 PM
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QUOTE (Aku)
i would imagine so, as despite the legs working with gravity towards your soles, the rest of your body has to account for it. I would think some sort of magnetic hand/feet combo would be more useful for easier climbing, and movement.

Well, if you were doing that, I'd start using climbing rules, with greatly reduced TNs, because you're now making at least climbing motions (by using both hands and feet to pull yourself up with). Rather than simply walking/running up the wall without "climbing" per say (as in finding foot holds, hand holds and so on).
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Da9iel
post Dec 1 2004, 06:39 AM
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Well if he needed both feet to have enough magnetic attraction he could only barely hold himself sideways on a wall. Lets say he was close to the 100 kg limit. He would need his high leg is pointed up 45 degrees and his low leg is pointed down 45 degrees (fairly big split) as well as leaning forward to keep his body close to the wall (at least straight up from the hips). That would put 50 kg of upward force (I know kg isn't really a force, but do the conversions yourself) on each leg, 50 kg pushing into the wall on the lower leg, and 50 kg trying to pull away from the wall on the upper leg. Given the precariousness of his situation, I wouldn't let him run up at all. If he was a scrawny 50 kg, I'd let him walk awkwardly, but no more. Of course he could make a running start. I'd say he could get up the wall as far as he is tall before slowing to a half walk speed. OTOH, it is a fantasy game. Do as you please, but running is not realistically feasible--when you run, by definition, both feet are off the surface at the same time. AHHHH :dead:
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Fresno Bob
post Dec 1 2004, 07:39 AM
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I'd require a strength test, too...you'd have to have some strong ab muscles to not bend backwards.

{Edit} Now that I think about it, you'd need to have all your muscles above the knee strong enough to support your own weight freehanging.
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toturi
post Dec 1 2004, 01:12 PM
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In SR, the World Trade Center isn't destroyed, so that's one building you could walk up in SR.
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 1 2004, 02:39 PM
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IIRC it was destroyed along with most of New York City in the earthquakes. 2005, was it?

~J
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Fortune
post Dec 1 2004, 03:50 PM
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As far as I knew, it was toast, but it's been a while since I read about NY.
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Tarantula
post Dec 1 2004, 03:52 PM
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You could always wait a few months and see. :rotfl:
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Fortune
post Dec 1 2004, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (Tarantula @ Dec 2 2004, 01:52 AM)
You could always wait a few months and see.

Why? Do you think the WTC is going to rebuilt in the next couple of months? :)
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Tarantula
post Dec 1 2004, 04:30 PM
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I was meaning more along with "most of New York City" rather than it specifically... but I wouldn't put it past them.
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