 Dunk, 6 feet under or not? |
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 Dec 2 2004, 03:18 AM
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#1
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712  |
There's enough of a mystery surrounding his "death" and I know that my gaming group and myself have all discussed what the options would be if he hadn't actually been assassinated. What do you think?
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Dec 2 2004, 03:30 AM
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#2
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Dude, Dragon Heart Trilogy, dude.
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Dec 2 2004, 03:36 AM
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#3
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Ignoring canon for a moment, I don't think Dunkelzahn will return. Both the Draco Foundation, which is the equivalent of his spirit, and Ghostwalker, equivalent of his body, have replaced him and the need of him.
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Dec 2 2004, 03:43 AM
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#4
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yes, Dunkelzahn is dead. He and Billy Burnout made a valiant try at stemming the tide of Horrors, but they have failed and died in the process.
The destruction of humanity is fast approaching. ~J [ Spoiler ]
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 Dec 2 2004, 03:51 AM
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#5
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
I clicked other. Ye didnae have one for "He's dead, Jim!" ! :rotfl: !
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Dec 2 2004, 03:55 AM
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#6
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Voted "other" as stated above, the whole thing was answered in the Dragon Heart trilogy of novels.
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Dec 2 2004, 03:55 AM
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#7
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
You forgot "He's dead. But he's working an angle."
Best Gov Schwarzenegger voice, "I'll be back." |
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Dec 2 2004, 04:13 AM
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#8
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
[ Spoiler ]
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Dec 2 2004, 05:07 AM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Dunk's spirit is kicking around out there by canon. But I highly doubt that he'll come up again in published material. The Big D represents the "Old Guard" when it comes to FanPro publications, IMO.
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Dec 2 2004, 05:08 AM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
In my view of the setting, I prefer it with Dunkelzahn actually having been assassinated. It leads to much more interesting stories than the total munchkinfest that was that idiotic triology (nevermind my continued beef as to why they killed off Dunkelzahn).
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Dec 2 2004, 05:23 AM
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#11
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
I do not get it. The characters in the books are powerful, but I do not understand why people constantly label them as munchkins? Or why do people constantly diss Ryan Mercury?
IMO, that should be the level of skill/power that a Prime Runner should be. Superman levels. It is Canon even, members of Assets Inc are Superhuman. That is comparable to Renraku Red Samurai. Perhaps all this bitching is the inability to accept that power levels like that are Canon and that while you may say,"That's not happening in MY game" or "That'll never have happened if I was the GM", a published example proves you wrong. |
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Dec 2 2004, 05:27 AM
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#12
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
Because to a lot of people he lacks depth, not saying I agree or disagree, and reeks of someones pet project.
I like the idea of him (Dunk) being dead, like Doc F, but I don't think we've dealt with it much yet. So why did they kill him off Doc? From your view? |
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Dec 2 2004, 05:33 AM
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#13
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
Also almost every-no every published book lacks the depth that I put into my games. SO when I say that won't happen in my game-I mean it. Not just because it contradicts me-which I could care less about personally, but because 99% of the books suck. And badly.
I think the definition of Prime Runner doesn't apply to all the characters in all the books. Some? Yes. Ryan Mercury? Definitely. Jane? Sure. Sam Verner? No. Kham? No. Wolf and Raven? Yes. Doger? Sort of-in the decking world he is obviously a step above, but still no Fast Jack. The bitching is because if Canon were the books it'd be worse than it already is at points. The books barely hold up together in my opinion. Burning Bright, my favorite book, is a different world from Nights Pawn. |
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Dec 2 2004, 05:50 AM
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#14
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
The point is that I've not seen anyone (ANYONE) complain that Burnout is too powerful yet. But there is evidently a lot of negative opinion on Mercury. In fact, I've never seen anyone bitch about how munchkin the antagonist is in the books. Why? I really don't know.
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Dec 2 2004, 05:54 AM
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#15
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
He's a cyberzombie?
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Dec 2 2004, 06:00 AM
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#16
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Well... It might be because the antagonist needs to be as powerful as the hero, eh? And I think that's the real problem people have with many of the primary characters, especially Ryan: they are heros. |
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Dec 2 2004, 06:11 AM
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#17
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Moreover, he didn't really do anything that far fetched when you consider that he basically traded his soul in addition to the Talent for the ability to move real fast and store a minigun in his back.
Add to that he had the spirit of a Great Dragon fused with his body later in the books. :) The problem I have is with Darke. Or more specifially the hordes of angsty teenagers that think working for the Most Unholly is *cool*. :please: [ Spoiler ] Ryan Mercury has the classic traits of a munchkin. He has no parents, no family, was trained by a Great Dragon (let me know if you'd let a PC get away with that), and is a cold hearted killer with a likable, easy-going personality. Munchkin through and through. He also has a weakness for "perky, brown nipples." Gimme a break. :S It is true that Burnout shares most of the above traits but he lacks the crucial weakness of the nipple thing. (she worked for Polish Intel?! C'mon on now...) :) |
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Dec 2 2004, 06:32 AM
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#18
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
I don't know about the "perky, brown nipples", but I would certainly allow "cold hearted killer with likeable, easy-going personality" and "trained by a Great Dragon". I don't recall Caimbeul having parents or family, but I've not seen anyone call him a munchkin yet. Wolf doesn't have family or parents either, but I've not seen people calling him a munchkin either. By the way, what is wrong with heroes? Do they have to be wimps? Is there some defination somewhere that a hero may not waltz all over the opposition? If so, Mr Chao Yun Fatt in the various John Woo movies has played more munchkins than I can remember. And yet, I've yet to see someone say,"That's sooo munchkin!" |
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Dec 2 2004, 06:33 AM
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#19
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
It's not just angst ridden teenagers who make deals with demons. Look at Saudi Arabia, they made a deal with one hoping to get a bully of their back, and in turn must pay the price. It happens all the time with humanity (look at the Cold War "allies" of the various nations). We're constantly looking out for our best interests at the moment, but rarely have the foresight of consequences. Besides, both Darke and Ryan became tools of that which empowered them, and the loss of freewill is a heavy price, in my humble opinion. |
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Dec 2 2004, 06:42 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 243 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Abu Dhabi Member No.: 318 |
Well, as a genre convention anyone that does pose a threat to the World Order ™ gets killed off by powers that be. Even the most powerful 'man' of the age. I think the Big D as president was supposed to give people a glimpse at a different life, then snatch it away from them. The whole coming back thing just reeks of Messiah references. |
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Dec 2 2004, 06:49 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
Nothing. Unless you don't like heros.
Hero's are never wimps.
Yes. It's called an Anti-Hero. Anti-Hero's get beat up and nearly killed almost on a regular basis since they are meant to reflect a more human-down-to-earth-amazing-person character rather than a legend-demi-greek-god-super-human(Hero). If you don't like Hero's, then often, you'll like Anti-Hero's. The opposite is also true, as well as the possibility for liking both. In this thread, it seems there are a number of people who prefer the Anti-Hero. |
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Dec 2 2004, 08:09 AM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
Well, I feel like a Schmoo for not having read or *gasp* even hearing of said trilogy. I read one Shadowrun book once and even in high school I could tell that it was "schlockily" written. I haven't picked up one since. Can someone do one of those little '30 second movie reviews' on the books for me?
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Dec 2 2004, 08:24 AM
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#23
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Yeah, Read Burning Bright.
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Dec 2 2004, 08:28 AM
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#24
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yes, there's something wrong with heros: they don't belong in SR. i mean, Worlds Without End had friggin' immortal elves fighting horrors head-on in it--but not a hero in sight. there shouldn't be any noble, selfless people in SR, or at least not any noble, selfless people who get the happy ending at the end of the story. SR just isn't about heroes and happy endings.
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Dec 2 2004, 08:35 AM
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#25
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
It isn't? I thought it is all about heroes. It is Canon even, for example,
Are you sure you are playing SR or just some game you think is SR, mfb? |
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