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> Oklahoma is behind the SOTA curve, (some things never change)
Lance Hawvermale
post Dec 3 2004, 06:38 AM
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I think Oklahoma got overlooked in the creation story of the Sixth World.

The fundamentals of the SR tale include, of course, the return of magic, goblinization, paracritters, corps, and the rise of the native North American peoples, among other things. Now, what I never understood is this: Oklahoma has the highest population of American Indians. Flat out. Not New Mexico or the Dakotas. Oklahoma. The very word is Choctaw for "red people." There's some serious history here, and the nation's greatest number of American Indians in any single state. I see it every day, working on the tribal lands of the Otoe-Missouria.

So . . . it's always intrigued me that the original Shadowrun writers didn't stage any of the fictionalized events of the Sixth World in Oklahoma. This state hosts more pow-wows per year than anywhere else. There are more dancers, and more tribes. Oklahoma tribes have connections east to Florida and north to the Great Lakes. And talk about the background count. My friends, you haven't seen bad karma until you've spent some time at the terminus of the Trail of Tears.

It just seems like the perfect place for writers using the theme of American Indian resurgance. We have the Ute nation, the Pueblo, and all the rest, when the most logical one of all is not even mentioned.

(Now, all of this rant is terribly funny if you've ever been to Oklahoma, where we all have built-in inferiority complexes, bemoaning the fact that everyone sees us as backwoods and uncultured. We have a saying here in the Sooner state: "Thank God for Arkansas.")

All the best to everyone,

Lance
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Fresno Bob
post Dec 3 2004, 06:40 AM
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Hey, at least your state isn't partially conquered by jack-booted Japanese invaders.
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Fortune
post Dec 3 2004, 06:42 AM
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Just goes to show you that when the NAN uprising occured, even the Indians didn't want Oklahoma. ;)
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Lance Hawvermale
post Dec 3 2004, 06:47 AM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
Just goes to show you that when the NAN uprising occured, even the Indians didn't want Oklahoma. ;)

Ah, spoken like someone who knows how to pick on an Okie. ;)

But another thought: the various tribes own lots of real estate in this neck of the woods. I wonder what happened to it after the uprising when they all moved to one of the newly established native nations. The only place legal gambling can happen in Oklahoma is on tribal ground, hence the proliferation of casinos (there are probably a dozen within half an hour's drive of my house). Surely they wouldn't have handed these over to the CAS government . . .
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Fresno Bob
post Dec 3 2004, 06:49 AM
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Maybe they just dismantled and moved the casinos. Or maybe they realized that with their own nations, they wouldn't need to support themselves with gambling revenue, so they sold them off to private interests.
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Kanada Ten
post Dec 3 2004, 06:49 AM
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QUOTE
Surely they wouldn't have handed these over to the CAS government . . .

Those Casinos were likely confiscated when the Reeducation Camps were formed. Repartitions might have been granted durning the Treaty of Denver, though that would be a minor note.

This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: Dec 3 2004, 06:52 AM
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Lance Hawvermale
post Dec 3 2004, 06:59 AM
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Is it ever mentioned in any of the sourcebooks what became of the various tribes' land holdings when they migrated to the newly formed states? Remember, they are the sovereign administrators of these lands, not simply the "owners" who "bought" the land from a previous holder. The could not have been legally forced to sell, only pushed out by might of arms.

The current Cherokee lands are split by the UCAS/CAS border (in fact, I think the border runs through my backyard), so that must have made for an interesting real estate deal.
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Fortune
post Dec 3 2004, 07:01 AM
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The Treaty of Denver superceded all previous land claims by any of the parties involved.
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Kanada Ten
post Dec 3 2004, 07:10 AM
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QUOTE
The could not have been legally forced to sell, only pushed out by might of arms.

They were forced to vacate by arms during the Resource Rush; that is what sparked the Lone Eagle Incident, the Reeducation Camps, the Great Ghost Dance, and finally the Treaty of Denver.
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Lance Hawvermale
post Dec 3 2004, 07:24 AM
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Okay. I guess I'll have to hold up my end of statehood patriotism and write Target: Oklahoma.

(I can see you all clamoring to buy it; a must-have, I'm sure.)
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Kanada Ten
post Dec 3 2004, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE (Lance Hawvermale)
Okay. I guess I'll have to hold up my end of statehood patriotism and write Target: Oklahoma.

(I can see you all clamoring to buy it; a must-have, I'm sure.)

If you just make a top five hot spots and submit them to Target: Awakened Lands 2 (Trail of Tears, hellz yeah nasty horrible place between dead Injuns and their dead slaves).
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Lance Hawvermale
post Dec 3 2004, 07:36 AM
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T:AW2? Ah, not a bad idea. If/when Rob solicits for such a book, perhaps I'll do just that.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Dec 3 2004, 07:55 AM
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QUOTE (Lance Hawvermale @ Dec 3 2004, 12:59 AM)
Is it ever mentioned in any of the sourcebooks what became of the various tribes' land holdings when they migrated to the newly formed states?  Remember, they are the sovereign administrators of these lands, not simply the "owners" who "bought" the land from a previous holder.  The could not have been legally forced to sell, only pushed out by might of arms.

Well, having just had my last Federal Indian Law class, and maybe this is the frustration at the fact that Federal Indian Law is just insane...

In my world, the U.S. eliminated Title 25 of the U.S. Code and provided the land for the Anglos who were removed from the NAN lands.

As for Oklahoma, I don't know. But either way, I'm sure it's a lot easier to enforce the law.

But it's one of those things that were you to think about it too much would only do two things, 1) possibly produce volumes of material on every facet of the last 50 years in SR, and 2) drive said author batshit crazy.
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Fix-it
post Dec 3 2004, 03:41 PM
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Yeah, be thankfull your town didn't get run over by bug spirits and NUKED for chrissake.

/good 'ol containment zone.
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Fortune
post Dec 3 2004, 03:50 PM
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The Toronto-Hamilton area where I grew up seems to come out alright though. :D
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Fortune
post Dec 3 2004, 03:53 PM
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More on topic ...

Almost every area of the States and Canada can be 'laid claim to' by the natives. What they eventually ended up with was the result of long negotiations and culminated in the Treaty of Denver. All previous claims to former lands by all parties were thereafter made null-and-void except where stated in this new Treaty.
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Lance Hawvermale
post Dec 3 2004, 04:56 PM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
More on topic ...

Almost every area of the States and Canada can be 'laid claim to' by the natives. What they eventually ended up with was the result of long negotiations and culminated in the Treaty of Denver. All previous claims to former lands by all parties were thereafter made null-and-void except where stated in this new Treaty.

This answers the second half of my question. Thanks.

But it does nothing for an Okie's ego to think that the most significant Indian state in the union got left out of the Shadowrun history.

Now I just need to find the coordinates of that pesky UCAS/CAS border . . .
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Fortune
post Dec 3 2004, 05:08 PM
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They traded Oklahoma for Vegas. ;)
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Lance Hawvermale
post Dec 3 2004, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
They traded Oklahoma for Vegas. ;)

Touché.
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post Dec 3 2004, 07:18 PM
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But that's the thing: It didn't get left out--It was given to the Anglos.

But we also have to consider who and where the major players of the GGD war were which is basically two (unless someone can find me a more informative description)-- Howling-Coyote was a Ute who was operating out of New Mexico/Arizona, and Thunder Tyee up in Washington.

It is an oversight twice over, at least, given the opportunity to mention it in SR1 (NAGNA and NAN1&2) and SR3 (SoNA), but one I don't see being addressed simply because it'd be too much work on their part for too little product.
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