What AAA's are going red? - Dumpshock Forums

What AAA's are going red?

Cynic project View Member Profile	Dec 6 2004, 10:40 PM Post #1
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543	Well, NovaTech seems to have a hard time...They are going deeply into the red. The Big A, is still fighting a war that they do not seem to be winning,and are getting a longer list of countries they aren't welcomed in. SK, what can I say about them..They seem to being picked on by all sides.This is not to say that they are getting beaten,or that anyone group is taking them over,but some of the smaller players (namely nearly of all them) are taking small bites out the king. Renie is not to happy about what is happened in the Americas. They seem to be be going down for that little Dues problem. But I can see a big check going to the UCAS,so they may get some friends in the right places. Cross had to do some major purging of it's angels,and that my friends may have dulled their edge over Ares. So there are five of the big ten that are having large problems. How are the other ones doing?

BitBasher View Member Profile	Dec 6 2004, 11:24 PM Post #2
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	I wouldn't consider any of those issues ones that would cause a financial hardship big enough to threaten their solvency.

FlakJacket View Member Profile	Dec 6 2004, 11:56 PM Post #3
King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127	I don't know, Art seems to be stripping away Novatech piece by piece pretty effectively. I can see a lot of similarities between Novatech and the old USSR right at the very end if it carries on as its going.

BitBasher View Member Profile	Dec 6 2004, 11:58 PM Post #4
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	USSR had financial issues because if its military machine that make it a somewhat invalid comparison compared to a megacorp IMHO.

FlakJacket

Dec 7 2004, 12:01 AM

Post #5

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Not really. They had more costs than their economy (income) could support. If Novatech keeps losing money then eventually they're not going to be able to cover their expenses and start defaulting on their debts and payments. Triple A Mega's literally are globe spanning countries.

Edit: The whole USSR analogy idea came from a friend of mine. Here's how he put it,

QUOTE (Jeff)

Messy would not even begin to describe it. We're talking about multi-national/global companies that have been described as the smallest (of the AAA) having yearly revenues that easily dwarf the GNPs of several of the world's superpowers combined. They build secret research facilities, armed to the teeth with military defenses and vehicles, field private armies and special operations units. They own and control naval vessels, space based comm platforms (and I wouldn't doubt a few tactical space based weapon platforms), likely have plenty of WMD assets at their disposal if ever needed...the list goes on.

Picture this for a second...not only the death of a megacorp, but a bloodless death. No great corp war, no nuclear holocaust as I've thought of with Death of the Doves...no bang, just a whimper. Artie is talking about financial draining away the resources of Novatech. With the amount of liquid assets he could bring to bear, it may just work. Imagine a Fuchi spec ops team leader, or Fuchi naval sub commander, or a highly specialized chemtech researcher who is losing money from stock prices dropping. Paychecks are showing up short, minus bonuses or combat/hazard pay. Subsidized housing and utilities are not being payed. Services available in corporate arcology housing are being cut off or lessened. You would have what the former USSR is facing now. Military personnel and research personnel would be looking for ways to supplement their income or even have any income by resorting to selling their supplies and skills to the highest bidder. But this would not only be affecting one nation but the entire world market.

BitBasher View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 12:04 AM Post #6
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	Right but Novatech can do things as a corp that a country could not to solve these problems. They can divest themselves of departments hemmoraging cash and so on. They are just assets that form a collective whole.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 12:06 AM Post #7
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	I wouldn't say Novatech is in the red at all. Not a chance. At worst a larger-than-usual number of it subsidiaries are doing so. ~J

FlakJacket View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 12:09 AM Post #8
King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127	Shrug I guess we just have different ways of seeing it. Even if they do try tactics of divesting themselves of subsidiaries and departments, Art would just move on to crushing the ones they've kept. He's got the cash and lack of sanity to take it right to the very end. And that's not counting the other corps circling like vultures.

BitBasher View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 12:12 AM Post #9
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	Actually I have a problem with the whole Art line because it's just not feasable that he could do that for an extended period of time without taking a dirtnap. Hell, other megas would be out to kill him too, just to keep the status quo and discourage such behavior. I just think its not feasable.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 12:17 AM Post #10
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Indeed. They screwed up when they had Art having actually achieved anything significant yet. I just put it up there with the NAN books and hope that eventually there will be a blurb in a sourcebook about how the effects were overblown. ~J

toturi View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 12:57 AM Post #11
Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187	I am actually happy that writers actually let Art push Novatech so far. It simply reinforces the fact that no-one, not even a AAA, is truly all-powerful or so powerful that no single person can take them down. Shit happens to everyone, even the megas. The bigger you are, the bigger the shit. I can see some AAAs or even AAs just waiting to pounce on the empty seat should Novatech drop from mega status. Heck, if Novatech is really into the red, I can see them all taking a bite like sharks in a feeding frenzy.

BitBasher

Dec 7 2004, 01:02 AM

Post #12

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QUOTE

I am actually happy that writers actually let Art push Novatech so far. It simply reinforces the fact that no-one, not even a AAA, is truly all-powerful or so powerful that no single person can take them down.

In the real world companies CAN get so big that joe schmo cannot stand a chance of taking them down. If Joe Bob from BFE Ohio decides he doesn't like RJR Nabisco, then tough. There's nothing he can do about it.

toturi

Dec 7 2004, 01:12 AM

Post #13

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QUOTE (BitBasher)

In the real world companies CAN get so big that joe schmo cannot stand a chance of taking them down. If Joe Bob from BFE Ohio decides he doesn't like RJR Nabisco, then tough. There's nothing he can do about it.

And in the real world, Mr Gates went from nobody to world's richest man. If Joe Bob had a billion dollars, was well trained in Money-Fu and decided that he doesn't like Nabisco, he could do something about it, like Art.

BitBasher

Dec 7 2004, 01:13 AM

Post #14

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QUOTE (toturi)

QUOTE (BitBasher @ Dec 7 2004, 09:02 AM)

In the real world companies CAN get so big that joe schmo cannot stand a chance of taking them down. If Joe Bob from BFE Ohio decides he doesn't like RJR Nabisco, then tough. There's nothing he can do about it.

And in the real world, Mr Gates went from nobody to world's richest man. If Joe Bob had a billion dollars, was well trained in Money-Fu and decided that he doesn't like Nabisco, he could do something about it, like Art.

Examples please of multinationals taken down by practicioners of monkey-fu? :)

toturi

Dec 7 2004, 01:21 AM

Post #15

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QUOTE (BitBasher)

Examples please of multinationals taken down by practicioners of monkey-fu? :)

Dunno, never been to the Planet of the Apes before. :P

BitBasher View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 01:23 AM Post #16
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	:grinbig: All sarcasm aside It's one of those things that looks okay on paper, sort of, and writers use it to have a cool NPC that does something special, but it just doesn't happen. At all. :)

Voran

Dec 7 2004, 02:03 AM

Post #17

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QUOTE (toturi)

QUOTE (BitBasher @ Dec 7 2004, 09:02 AM)

In the real world companies CAN get so big that joe schmo cannot stand a chance of taking them down. If Joe Bob from BFE Ohio decides he doesn't like RJR Nabisco, then tough. There's nothing he can do about it.

And in the real world, Mr Gates went from nobody to world's richest man. If Joe Bob had a billion dollars, was well trained in Money-Fu and decided that he doesn't like Nabisco, he could do something about it, like Art.

Yeahbut that's because he mastered the idea of stealing someones idea on the cheap, remarketing it as his own, and getting into a new market with (at the time) near limitless potential.

Breaking into the market when you don't have something really innovative, can be difficulty i imagine.

Black Isis View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 03:40 AM Post #18
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 24-February 03 From: The Containment Zone Member No.: 4,151	Er....what has Art been able to achieve with regard to NovaTech lately? I know he has a grudge against him, and he took down Gunderson, but I haven't seen any mention of it since Threats 2, at least overtly. Is there something I'm missing? Frankly, while I think that was an interesting idea, I can't see it ultimately being successful, because Villiers' net worth is at least several time Art's, and Art seems to be burning cash just to smash away at things, whereas Villiers' is trying to actually grow his cash. While he may have leveraged a lot, Villiers is described as a financial genius, so while Dankwalther might be an incredible pain in his side (and certainly cause significant problems Novatech will have to deal with), I would hope it would not be enough to bring down Novatech, barring some other sort of problem (like if the UCAS suddenly becomes VERY hostile to Novatech or something similar, but I can't see that happening).

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 04:00 AM Post #19
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	It is mentioned that Novatech isn't doing so well against Art in SOTA:2064. Which is stupid. ~J

mfb View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 04:19 AM Post #20
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	why? you accepted Richard Villiers doing the same thing to Fuchi, without Fuchi ever realizing what was going on until it was too late. why is it harder to see Art doing it, especially when Art isn't limited by any desire to make a profit on the deal (as Villiers was)?

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 04:50 AM Post #21
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Because Villiers wasn't doing the same thing to Fuchi. Dunkelzahn did the same thing to Fuchi, and he was giving Villiers/Lanier voting stock and cred to work with (ok, Villiers supplied the money, but he had both) instead of just cred. Not to mention that in terms of connections they started near the top rather than as former low-level accountants. ~J

FlakJacket View Member Profile	Dec 7 2004, 04:57 AM Post #22
King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127	Could be wrong, but I think he meant Villiers ripping Fuchi off and setting Novatech up out of stolen parts.

Black Isis

Dec 7 2004, 04:57 AM

Post #23

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QUOTE (mfb)

why? you accepted Richard Villiers doing the same thing to Fuchi, without Fuchi ever realizing what was going on until it was too late. why is it harder to see Art doing it, especially when Art isn't limited by any desire to make a profit on the deal (as Villiers was)?

Because Villiers is worth at least twice as much, and already owned a third of Fuchi when he started his little scheme -- not to mention he's been a corporate shark for nigh on 40 years, and has one of the best corporate espionage guys in the world on his payroll. Art may have a lot of money, but that doesn't buy you experience, or loyalty, or the Great Big Foot of the Corporate Court.

The other thing is that it seems like Art is depending very heavily on other people to get his schemes to work -- he's not a crack businessman, he's a disgruntled accountant. Eventually, the people who are working for him are just going to decide they don't need him anymore -- or that they can take him for everything he's worth because he's so blind to everything except destroying Richard Villiers. It's not like he's doing this as some sort of anti-corporate liberation movement, where he might have some true believers to help him -- the same type of people he's trying to take down are the very same kind of people he's hiring to do the job.

I dunno. It just seems extremely implausible -- it seems like Art would be better off trying to make his own corporate empire and just taking revenge by living the good life, while he watches Villiers flail about trying to keep his new mega afloat in the sea of sharks that is the Big Ten, or putting all his money into some sort of crazy communist anti-corporate revolutionary movement. :P

Kagetenshi

Dec 7 2004, 05:09 AM

Post #24

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QUOTE (FlakJacket)

Could be wrong, but I think he meant Villiers ripping Fuchi off and setting Novatech up out of stolen parts.

Yes. Which he did in no small part because Lanier got on the board of directors and accentuated all of the preexisting divisions. As Black Isis mentioned, the fact that he already owned a sizable chunk of Fuchi didn't hurt.

~J

BitBasher

Dec 7 2004, 07:06 AM

Post #25

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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)

QUOTE (FlakJacket @ Dec 6 2004, 11:57 PM)

Could be wrong, but I think he meant Villiers ripping Fuchi off and setting Novatech up out of stolen parts.

Yes. Which he did in no small part because Lanier got on the board of directors and accentuated all of the preexisting divisions. As Black Isis mentioned, the fact that he already owned a sizable chunk of Fuchi didn't hurt.

~J

And they weren'nt even really stolen parts! He owned a big fat piece of that before he started, as mentioned before.

To switch genres a sec this is like the absolute retarded travesty of the inner sphere and their desparate mission to screw over the clan homeworlds, which would have only worked because the authors ignored TONS of previous information about the clans and their resources.

IMPLAUSABLE! :)

God forbit they have Art win. That's be about the first time I've really had a good reason to hate the metaplot for bad writing. I want to see it taken back to the gritty nad have art make a good effort but ultimately be stamped out by human greed and shadowrunners who want a payday. That's SR, not the happy fluffy blunnies and kittens one man can make a difference crap.

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