Brain Hacking, dumb questions for fun & profit... Options

[Joe Outside]

I've seen it inferred here and there, most recently here, that there is a possibility, even a feasability, to hack into someone's brain through their datajack. This is a character concept I've wanted to try for a while, and so I ask: are there any canon rules for such a thing? If so, where can I find them? If not, anyone have any interesting ideas for house rules? The rest of my group all like the idea as well, and are willing to adopt house rules for the character if we can't find any canon rules.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

That's a pretty big no as far as I'm concerned.

[BitBasher]

No such thing, your brain is not a computer system running a host.

[The Jopp]

I wouldn't say no to brainhacking, what if it was done by an Otaku against another Otaku?

[Joe Outside]

No canon rules. About what I'd figured. But here's my logic behind the concept...

The datajack in your head serves as an interface and translator, turning raw computer data into something your brain can understand, and vice versa. The guy tied up across the table from you also has a datajack, a translator between mental pulses and computer pulses. Is it so unfeasable for someone to use the datajacks as a double blind, giving you access to their synapses?

As I said before, I figured there was nothing official canon on this, and I don't think it would be easy to do either. I think it should actually take an entirely different skillset and some very specialized equipment to pull it off, and if the subject is concious he would definitely have the ability to fight back in his own mind, and even if he's unconcious the mind would be fighting back some anyway. The way we've been thinking it so far, the human brain is an immensly complex ultraviolet host, and all your standard decking utilities mean exactly jack squat there, and your computer skill becomes merely a supplementary skill to whatever skill you would use there, Psychology, Lucid Dreaming, something like that.

Any thoughts or ideas other than it can't be done?

[DrJest]

...this offers so many possibilities for SR that the mind boggles for a moment.

Leaving aside for a moment that, in the SR universe, a lot of it could be done by magic (Mental Probe etc), and assuming it could be made to work (although I do agree that one Otaku could possibly hack another Otaku) - of the top of my head, I think the way you would do it would be to hook both participants up to Ye Olde B-Movie Mad Scientiste Device that translates brain-waves into recognisable ASIST patterns - there are any number of story possibilities involving:

1) Deep probing memories that magic can't reach
- Because they are too old
- Because they are too traumatic and thus deeply buried
- Because they were deliberately sealed off by someone

2) Altering personality
- Already exists in psychotropic IC, so has a precedent in SR.
- Manchurian Candidate, anyone?

3) Old-fashioned torture
- "And now, Princess Leia, we will discuss the location of your hidden rebel base..."

[Fortune]

The only way I would use this is to deck implanted memory. I wouldn't allow a decker to hack into the actualy brain.

[Jason Farlander]

'Brain Hacking' does already exist in SR Canon, after a fashion, in the form of Programmable ASIST Biofeedback and, as DrJest mentions, psychotropic Black IC.

In the case of psychotropic Black IC, I imagine it would be perfectly feasible to design a utility that would produce similar effects. However, while those effects have the potential to have significant impact on the subject, tend to be a lot more limited in scope than would be of generally useful.

PAB has a lot more potential, but is also a lot more limited. It takes the highest rating PAB unit on the market a base time of 12 DAYS using current (SR) tech to alter or create memories of events. This also assumes that the target is being kept sedated and medicated to help the reprogramming along.

Now, that was described in CC, which portrayed the tech level in 2061 IIRC - so it wouldnt be too much of a stretch to say that the tech has improved a bit. Consider the possibility of monitoring someone's access to the matrix, and, during that time, and using a SOTA PAB unit hooked up to a cyberdeck, remotely, incrementally, altering that person's memories while they're surfing the 'trix. Double the base time since you dont have the benefits of drug administration/sedation, and throw in the possibility that a routine medical examination might detect signiature brain damage effects while the reprogramming is in progress. Limited, but rather insidious. I like it.

[Micheru]

In my group, one of my players and two of our most used npcs have 'mnemonic drives', which allow them to save anything up to a certain memory size.
Anything from programs/data off of the matrix, to real-time video that their eyes have seen. You could hack these, but I haven't had the chance to try yet.
These can be used for pirating data taken from systems the deckers have broken into, and unloaded at the Johnson's meet place. Anyone ever see Johnny Mnemonic?
~M

[Lindt]

You mean head mem. The stuff in sr3?

[Gilthanis]

I would say that it could be done to an extent, but if the person isn't willing, then there should be rules to allow a resistance to the change. As Jason pointed out, it could possibly be done with extensive gear, skills, and staffing, but you need to limit how often it is allowed. Otherwise, new viruses would be released on the matrix mind slaving everyone connected. Why didn't Deus think of that....oh wait I think he already kinda did.

[Kagetenshi]

I would give resistance even with a willing subject.

~J

[Joe Outside]

[mfb]

a program that allowed you to brainhack would basically, as Farlander mentioned, be Programmable ASIST Biofeedback. theoretically, you can brainhack someone who's jacked in already, by setting up a link between your PAB machine and their jackpoint--assuming, of course, that a datajack is a 'deep' enough connection to the brain. i assume it does, since PAB machines work via trodes (unless i misremember), and trodes < datajack. it's possible, of course, that a datajack doesn't have the right type of connection to the brain--that it doesn't have access to the centers of the brain that would allow PAB to work. however, the fact that black IC can perform ASIST Biofeedback on connected users through a dajajack suggests that the implant will work for PAB.

the problem with PAB is that it's very slow. you can't, for instance, PAB someone fast enough to make them punch themselves (just to pull an entirely random example out of thin air, that has never appeared in any anime series available on DVD and bittorrent).

[Kagetenshi]

It appeared in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. Episode 6, IIRC :P

~J

[mfb]

indeed. it was also in the manga fairly often.

[Wireknight]

Actually, in the Arcology Shutdown scenario, Deus slowly ASIST-biofeedback-conditioned various powerful individuals in the Arcology via the SCIRE Host in preparation for the overthrow, as a precursor to actual transfiguration. Given that, I'd say if you have a datajack and someone else is a skilled enough decker with a PAB unit, you're in trouble.

[BitBasher]

And it featured prominently in GITS2:Innocence also.

[Shockwave_IIc]

You could get i good effect from psychotropic Black IC as Jason mentioned, if you happened to have one that was programmed to hit a specfic person then it would easier as well the range of effects being increased no doubt. You then could set up codes words/ effects to get manchurian candidate like effects out of people.

But the entire thing would be planned from picking your target, to when you attack and how often to the required effects. Which pretty much means that your in their life, hopefully without them knowing.

As someone as said Deus has done it. Inside 2 days if memory serves, including the implantion of the 'Ware.

So in my opinion it's definatly doable

[GrinderTheTroll]

So if you have a datajack in your head, the best you can do (as that person) is to access any of the systems that it's connected to. There is no direct-link to your brain, you can't download dreams, thought, etc. Although some items do take input into the brain (sense driven cyberware) or things like Echephalons that help process data, I'd have to say the best you could do is access the systems that the datajack is connected to, maybe send some false input to the brain.

I personally wouldn't allow "brain-jacking" unless it was to further some plot or story, and make it beyond regular reach of my players. Neat idea though.

[Joe Outside]

There's the rub, Grinder. I brought up the premise and my group asked me to follow up on it, make a character for just such a purpose, and play him. Admittedly, the concepts I was purposing were more of a wetware datamining concept than brainjacking, but the other concepts were there. That's why my question is more of a "how can I" rather than a "is it possible".

[hyzmarca]

For datamining, you could break into headware memory without too much difficulty. Actual brain hacking is a little more difficult. You can't just search for information, you must make the victim give it to you, which requires some fairly intense branwashing.

For brainjacking go with the magical aproach. Put an ally spirit with sorcery and the control actions spell into a sword Homunculi.
A bonus point for anyone who gets that referance.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Voran]

Hmm some considerations.

If the target in question has skillwires for active skills implanted in their body, I could see a situation where hacking into them would allow you to control them like a puppet on strings, as if I'm not mistaken, skillwires override your natural motorcontrol, do a degree.

I'd say cyberzombies are more likely than lesser cybered to risk being 'hacked' as they've got probably less will to fight off the attempt anyway. In lines with the above situations, I'd also say someone with more cyberlimbs could also risk being puppetmastered.