 Digital piracy in SR, what's your take on it? |
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 Dec 7 2004, 10:28 PM
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#26
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Immortal Elf  Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670  |
indeed. they were nearly apocalyptic last time; everybody's probably pretty gunshy around spreading virii in SR.
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Dec 7 2004, 11:40 PM
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#27
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Guests |
No, that's what Hacker House is/was for.
Uh... sure. Since a 4-min song file and effing self-executing Black IC are the same size and all... Of course, you're kidding. Right? Because too put a less fine point than what Wireknight said, that's just insane. Of course it's due to DRM. You know why? Because it's the only logical explanation! Sure, Fuchi may have sent out strike teams to kill the relatively few software pirates out there trying to make a buck off it, but only because there'd be so few that it'd be financially justifiable. But for 99% of users, they either can't due to technical incompetence, or won't because they can get shitcanned or worse by their employers. You know who would probably try to become the biggest pirates? Governments. Why? Because they can punch back. |
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Dec 8 2004, 06:53 AM
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#28
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Honolulu, HI Member No.: 6,099 |
I'd argue that 'internet' type matrix priracy is actually less a problem in 2060+ than real life 2004. The matrix and having a connection to the matrix is much more dangerous to the common person than it is for today's internet. Its sorta a reverse situation, CORPS pirate stuff/ideas/whatever they can from matrix connections through the trid/household appliances from your average joe. Nowadays the average joe can pirate stuff and feel cool and invulnerable to being caught. But when your own trid squeals on you for downloading copywrited materials, it'd be harder to do unless you're an actual hacker/decker type. The average joe/family/whatever in 2060+ has little to no idea how much they get probed by their own stuff, and have apparently been conditioned to think "Wow, this is really convenient! My TV knows my favorite types of shows, my fridge knows when I have to order new food, my toilet knows when to send me to the doctor!"
And if you're a 'true' hacker/decker type, why the hell would you waste alot of time pirating music? The books flavor the decker as someone who likes the risk, or showing off their leet skillz. Pirating music or low end stuff, would be beneath them. Something they might do for a buddy, but probably not something they'd invest alot of time in themselves. |
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Dec 8 2004, 02:19 PM
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#29
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Been on Kazaa recently? Every popular item has dozens upon dozens of files that aren't really the file you're looking for -- just some form of spyware/adware/malware that a malicious user uploaded to spread and wreak havoc. People download them thinking they're the song then never bother to check and delete it. The same would almost definitely ring true in 2060. |
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Dec 8 2004, 05:56 PM
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#30
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yeah, but you don't get that problem (yet) on bittorrent networks. and by the time you do, there'll probably be another type of p2p network out there that doesn't.
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Dec 8 2004, 06:02 PM
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#31
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Guests |
Understand context? Let me quote my esteemed colleague, again.
My point in shooting down this ridiculous example lies in the fact that by the rules they have vastly different memory sizes. Let's say I was on Kazaa (which I don't use, btw. Regardless.) and wanted to d/l yellowsubmarine.mp3. Now, I may not be the most saavy user in the world but if I'm going through the list of versions of Yellow Submarine, sticking something as utterly ridiculously large as Black IC is compared to music files would be pretty damn foolish because you're going to get a ton of 4 Mp files, and one that's nearly 1 Gp. Hmm.... Never seen a 4-min mp3 that's larger than some movies... I think I'll download it, even though all past experience tells me that this isn't right. Seriously. Sometimes, sometimes, I do know what I'm talking about. |
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Dec 8 2004, 06:46 PM
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#32
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
hey, it might be porn. i'd download it anyway, just in case!
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Dec 8 2004, 07:03 PM
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#33
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
remeber that cds, are dumb, totaly dumb. they have no record of what computer the content they carry was installed on or anything like that. adn the personal computer of today is a very uncontrolled enviroment. but rember that after the crash its said that the computer market was rebuildt in the image of the corps. this to me sounds like trusted computing taken to the extreme. today you can get hex editors and so on of the net for free, but its not that far of to think that the corps can via the corporate court have those kinds of tools stamped as security grade software or higher. then you have black box install chips that dont tell you anything about how it operates inside (unlike the cd's of today that shows you every last file one it) and that is able to store a unique signature of the computer you install on so later on it will fail to install on any other. key-codes are weak, they are dumb. i have seen better working system then that on amiga games (look up word x of line y on page z of the manual or rotate wheel 1 to setting x, wheel 2 to setting y, wheel 3 to setting z and enter the alphanumerical code found in box h). put up a site like gamecopyworld and you will have a striketeam of deckers down your thorat before you have time to say oops. the point is to make pirateing so troublesome and time-consumeing that the avarage joe will not bother. at the same time make the payed for content so available and so easy that they can just press a button and presto. and the info would not be as available as it is now, see previous stated decker striketeams. when you can physicaly burn down a host costing god knows what then people will think twice about hosting your pirated goods. |
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Dec 8 2004, 07:14 PM
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#34
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
That's you. Not every "pirate" is going to be as intelligent as you are when it comes to that. Most of them look at the filename, the bandwidth, and just double click if the bandwidth is high enough (meaning they'll get the most of the user's upstream for their downstream). |
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Dec 8 2004, 07:49 PM
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#35
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
most "pirates" are also not going to have a datajack, making the black IC kinda useless. besides which, why would any corporation open itself up to litigation like that? black IC is very, very illegal; the corps can ignore that when they're on their own systems (since they make the laws there), but uploading it onto the systems of other corporations and governments? bad, bad juju.
and, actually, i disagree about how proficient most "pirates" will be. i know kids in 4th grade who are nearly as proficient with computers as i am, and i've been working in tech support for four years (first in the army, now as a job to tide me over until college). i don't see that trend dying out by 2060. |
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Dec 8 2004, 08:16 PM
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#36
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Go on Kazaa, look up something that's new and fresh right now. I can guarantee at least half the hits are nothing at all but names that are there to create more downloads.
Most pirates you know are computer literate. Doesn't mean they all are. |
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Dec 8 2004, 08:23 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 626 Joined: 1-March 04 Member No.: 6,112 |
Fine, fine. Gray IC named 'completebeatles.zip', or 'pr0n feet latex 120min.avi.' It was only an offhand example. |
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Dec 8 2004, 08:23 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 230 Joined: 3-December 04 Member No.: 6,863 |
I think that Audio would be carted about. Audio would not be Audio per say, but more of SimSence or Trid. It would be sold, traded and stolen like CDs and DVDs today |
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Dec 8 2004, 08:29 PM
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#39
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
tanka, i didn't say that most of the pirates i know are computer literate. what i said, in an admittedly roundabout way, is that computer literacy is rising very quickly, and that the average "pirate" of 2060 is probably going to be very computer literate (compared to today).
and grey IC is also illegal, Toptomcat. all IC is. so are worms. |
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Dec 8 2004, 08:33 PM
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#40
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Except the download means your matrix persona is on THEIR system. Their laws apply. Plus, I could certainly see them releasing virus ridden (that cannot propogate on its own) without their name on it, or buggy software with known side effects. In either case, it's the user's fault for not checking the source. Tough luck about your deck catching fire, though. |
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Dec 8 2004, 08:36 PM
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#41
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i don't think you're aware of the way p2p networks work, nezumi. by definition, you're downloading from any number of different systems, not just the system that uploaded the file originally. as well, putting a file on a p2p network ensures that it will propogate.
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Dec 8 2004, 08:48 PM
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#42
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Computer literacy is rising only to the point of knowing that viruses are bad and that McAfee/Norton can help disenfect your system. I've seen a study that actually managed to get passwords from people for as little as, quite literally, nothing. Some even gave them away for a bar of chocolate. (Source) Computer literacy is rising in people who depend on computers for more than checking e-mail and writing up a document or two. Talk to people outside of Compuer Club/AV Club in high school and half of them think they're knowledgable because they use AIM and have a GMail account. Expand that to many of today's users in the business world. Many of them barely know how to use an e-mail program other than Outlook. Maybe the people you know do, but that's people you know. I'm sure if you went in a company where computer skills are not stressed, you'd find this running rampant. |
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Dec 8 2004, 08:49 PM
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#43
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Aside from the day to day stuff. Lets say I have connections in Shadowland. Or the Nexus, or something bigass like such. Whats to say that someone didnt program them selves an (effective) analyse 3 (lets call it whatdafuckisit.exe, a relitivly simple program, at 27MP) ,and decided that it worked so well they should give it away, post it to SL, free for download and usage. Now, why would anyone in their right mind go BUY something, black market or not, by Mitsu.(who makes the worlds best Analyse programs, but whatdafuckisit.exe is just as good) for ¥8,000?
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Dec 8 2004, 08:54 PM
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#44
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Well, Psychotropic IC would make a person pay 8,000 for a program that could otherwise be free. Outside of that, paranoia, or not knowing where to look/what to look for. Having connections to Shadowland or the Nexus, you'd get the program. I mean, hey, it's free. It works just as good as, if not better than, the Mitsu product. Most likely, any "normal" user (one without Evasion or Masking) doesn't know about Shadowland or the Nexus. Chances are better that they know Mitsu has the product, but that it's so expensive they couldn't ever hope to get it legally. So they go hunting for it illegally, hoping to come across a Good Samaritan that has kindly put it up on the Matrix for free. |
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Dec 8 2004, 09:40 PM
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#45
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Points at Shadowrun's Lifestyle rules that include renting Entertainment. |
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Dec 8 2004, 09:58 PM
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#46
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
tanka, you're not hearing me. i'm saying that the computer users of today are largely illiterate, compared to the users of 2060. yes, i know computer users today are stupid. but that's a trend that's changing very quickly.
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Dec 8 2004, 10:12 PM
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#47
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
The thing is, computers in 2060 really don't encourage knowing what you're doing. The idea of a standardized Matrix interface and customized iconography pretty much gaurontees that noone will know anything about the underpinnings of exactly *how* computers do their mojo unless it's actually your job to know. Hmankind's insistance on remaining ignorant of things that aren't constantly hitting them in the face will not change any time soon. |
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Dec 8 2004, 10:37 PM
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#48
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I don't have to know the chemistry behind a bullet to shoot a gun effectively. The denizens of 2060 will be able to manipulate their computers and the Matrix the same way we know how to navigate treacherous pothole riddled roads with our SUVs. |
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Dec 8 2004, 10:41 PM
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#49
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
I know how they work. However, our present method of downloading doesn't fit with the persona 'virtual landscape' paradigm used in the Matrix. Since the user is initiating the download, it's safe to assume the user's persona is going out somewhere else to find that file. And yes, the point is they go out of their way to put the buggy/virus ridden files out there. If those are propogating, you have a lot less pirates to worry about, don't you? It's like a virtual roach motel. |
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Dec 8 2004, 10:57 PM
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#50
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
But do they know how to avoid the potholes when they're disguised as parking spaces? It's also entirely probable that one cannot access the matrix without going through a server. The RTG/host topology is fairly unlike the modern Internet topology, IMO. ~J |
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