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> Spirit banishment, Is it too easy?
Orient
post Dec 9 2004, 04:17 PM
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This only recently came up in our game - the first time anyone's tried to banish a spirit. Turns out it's fairly easy to do.

Does anyone have any comments on the spirit banishing rules as presented in SR3? Are spirits too easy to banish, or have I just become too used to the power level of my group?

I'll post my thoughts on the balance / rules break-down for banishing when I'm slightly more caffeinated.
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mfb
post Dec 9 2004, 04:32 PM
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against low-force spirits, sure, it's pretty easy. but at force 6+, it's not very easy at all. and the fact that you're putting your own magical ability at risk is a pretty big factor to consider.
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Kanada Ten
post Dec 9 2004, 04:58 PM
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This is all IIRC since we've only done Banishing once in 3rd Edition and that was just to test the rules. I'm pretty sure it's an exclusive action as well, so it's not something to be entered into lightly, or when multiple spirits are present, or when you have sustained spells, or when you need to do something else in the next few rounds. Spiritbolt and Spiritball are usually better methods of dealing with spirits, and those can be used on the astral unlike Banishing.
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mfb
post Dec 9 2004, 06:28 PM
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the only time i've seen banishment used well was when we were getting attacked by a high-force (12 +7 SE) shedim. we were in the jungle, with our rigger's drone flying above the canopy searching for targets; he couldn't get a lock on the shedim because they weren't putting out a heat sig. our two mages tried to banish the shedim, which kept the shedim busy for the round or two that it took the other characters to finish off the rest of the shedim, and for me to toss a incendiary grenade at the shedim to mark his location.

while playing another character nearby, i tried to use banishing as an ambush tactic. i had Mag 11, and the spirit was F6. i lost, lost a point of magic temporarily, and probably would have been in trouble (the spirit had friends closeby) if another character hadn't stepped in and pulled me out.
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akarenti
post Dec 9 2004, 06:39 PM
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One of my players' character tried to banish a Force 5 elemental when he had wound penalties (+3 TNs). He got knocked out and perminently lost a point of magic.

The magician is a Raccoon Shaman, and doesn't have any combat spells, banishing and astral combat are the only decent ways the team has of dealing with spirits. Until someone gets a weapon focus.
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Kanada Ten
post Dec 9 2004, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE (akarenti)
The magician is a Raccoon Shaman, and doesn't have any combat spells, banishing and astral combat are the only decent ways the team has of dealing with spirits.

Illusions. Confusion works against spirits, too, as does Agonizing Pain and so on. Even better, most magicians don't put spell defense on their spirits, so they're a little easier to affect despite higher than average Willpower and Intelligence.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Dec 9 2004, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE (Orient)
This only recently came up in our game - the first time anyone's tried to banish a spirit. Turns out it's fairly easy to do.

Does anyone have any comments on the spirit banishing rules as presented in SR3? Are spirits too easy to banish, or have I just become too used to the power level of my group?

I'll post my thoughts on the balance / rules break-down for banishing when I'm slightly more caffeinated.

So how did you do it that made it so easy? As it's mentioned, Force 5+ are quite difficult, but those <5 are indeed easier.

More or less:
1) Mage rolls Conjuring (Banishing) vs. Force of Spirit, Spirit roles it's Force vs. Magic attribute of mage. Compare successes.
2) If mage gets net successes, reduce the Spirits Force by the net successes, if the Spirit gets net successes, reduce the mages Magic attribute by the net successes.
3) First one to zero loses.
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Rev
post Dec 9 2004, 10:32 PM
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Also the whole banishing doesn't happen in one action, so it is often going to take a few rounds.

The nice part is that the winner chooses if the banishing attempt continues, so low force spirits are almost certain to die and cannot run away.
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Lindt
post Feb 2 2005, 04:33 PM
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A little bit 'O thread necromancy.

Having looked, how does this apply to great form sprits? Is it aginst standard force?
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tisoz
post Feb 2 2005, 05:13 PM
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QUOTE (Lindt)
A little bit 'O thread necromancy.

Having looked, how does this apply to great form sprits? Is it aginst standard force?

What other force do they have?
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RedmondLarry
post Feb 3 2005, 12:42 AM
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To make my campaign more interesting, I allow spirits to initiate Banishing tests with a magician.
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TeOdio
post Feb 3 2005, 02:13 AM
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If I remember correctly, a spirit engaged in a banishing contest can do nothing else until the contest is fully resolved or the mage breaks off from the contest. (Or can the spirit break off if they win...too lazy to grab book) It can be an effective delaying technique against a powerful spirit.
:nuyen: :nuyen: :nuyen:
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Kanada Ten
post Feb 3 2005, 02:21 AM
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The spirit can break if they win, however, a powerful spirit may get "caught up" in burning the magician out.
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TeOdio
post Feb 3 2005, 03:13 AM
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QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
The spirit can break if they win, however, a powerful spirit may get "caught up" in burning the magician out.

Yep, that would be evil poetic justice though.
:nuyen: :nuyen: :nuyen:
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Shockwave_IIc
post Feb 10 2005, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (OurTeam)
To make my campaign more interesting, I allow spirits to initiate Banishing tests with a magician.

One way to scare the poo out of a PC mage.
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Gilthanis
post Feb 10 2005, 06:19 PM
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Control Actions is a pretty good spell to use as well. The summoning mage doesn't know you took him because the spirit is still under his binding control. The spirit is just doing a few extra services on the side.

"Hey what are you doing back so early??? What do you think you are doing? No wait. Stop..... Your services are done. Go back to your native plain."
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