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> Changing clips in the heat of battle..., How often have you done it?
How often have you done it?
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iPad
post Dec 10 2004, 01:30 AM
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I can only remember having to do it once, burst firing an alpha at a mob of people who were charging along a street at long/medium and eventually short range. Since most SR fire fights Ive been in are over in a combat turn or two 3-6 seconds ammo used in a fight is much of a muchness. The one exception being shotties.
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Clyde
post Dec 10 2004, 01:32 AM
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Maybe back in Second Edition, when suppressing fire was better than aimed shooting. Pretty much never in 3rd Ed.
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mfb
post Dec 10 2004, 01:52 AM
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yeah. most of my battles have been over inside two rounds. in the last game i played in, however, i ended up using all but my last two clips of ammo, so that throws off my curve a bit. man, that was fun--at one point, i spent... oh, five rounds or so, i guess, burning through a belt of MMG ammo at ~21 rounds per turn.

that sounds like some kind of high-end millspec ops game, but it really wasn't. at the time, my character was wearing beach shorts, a tropical shirt, and bare feet; we'd been out on the beach, waiting to to the next part of the run, when Bad Things started happening all over the place. most of the group ended up completely weaponless, with little or no armor. we managed to ambush a jeepful of "soldiers" (indonesian punks with rusty AKs and predator knockoffs in flipflops and cutoff fatigues) and taking their stuff, including the MMG mounted on their jeep. my character had to default to Str when he used it; luckily, i was using suppressive fire and centering, so i did some nice damage to the hundreds of shedim crossing the channel to eat our tasty flesh-parts. woo, good times.
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Necro Tech
post Dec 10 2004, 02:31 AM
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You know its bad when you reload your 50 rnd drum four times. Or your Ares alpha grenade launcher 4 times and stop reloading because you (and the rest of the party) are out of ammo. A fast sam can empty a standard assault rifle every turn with the cyberarm gyro mount and our current sam almost emptied his 100 rnd belt on the LMG. Fighting from cover at night with opponents in cover takes a while.
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toturi
post Dec 10 2004, 02:46 AM
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My primary PC uses a G38 carbine rifle with 100 rd drum. Any reloading more than once... means we're in deeper doodoo than we have any right to get out alive.
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kevyn668
post Dec 10 2004, 02:49 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
yeah. most of my battles have been over inside two rounds. in the last game i played in, however, i ended up using all but my last two clips of ammo, so that throws off my curve a bit. man, that was fun--at one point, i spent... oh, five rounds or so, i guess, burning through a belt of MMG ammo at ~21 rounds per turn.

that sounds like some kind of high-end millspec ops game, but it really wasn't. at the time, my character was wearing beach shorts, a tropical shirt, and bare feet; we'd been out on the beach, waiting to to the next part of the run, when Bad Things started happening all over the place. most of the group ended up completely weaponless, with little or no armor. we managed to ambush a jeepful of "soldiers" (indonesian punks with rusty AKs and predator knockoffs in flipflops and cutoff fatigues) and taking their stuff, including the MMG mounted on their jeep. my character had to default to Str when he used it; luckily, i was using suppressive fire and centering, so i did some nice damage to the hundreds of shedim crossing the channel to eat our tasty flesh-parts. woo, good times.

That sounds just like one of Bung's stories from PAoE... :D
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iPad
post Dec 10 2004, 02:49 AM
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toturi surely thats what aiming and single shot is for? Or suppressive fire? Or better hand to hand combat.
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toturi
post Dec 10 2004, 02:58 AM
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QUOTE (iPad @ Dec 10 2004, 10:49 AM)
toturi surely thats what aiming and single shot is for? Or suppressive fire? Or better hand to hand combat.

Think the 2 snipers in Blackhawk Down with Shedim instead of skinnies. Our rigger's drones ran out of ammo and our mage used up all his Great Form Elementals.
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Arethusa
post Dec 10 2004, 03:05 AM
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I honestly can't say I've ever seen enough action to justify reloading. Admittedly, my character spent most of his time avoiding combat, but in stand up fights, it was usually over before you even got half way through a mag. It really feels like the rules encourage players being unrealistic machines of efficiency in combat, and the only time you end up needing to reload is if you're up against more enemies than you have rounds in your mag.
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FrostyNSO
post Dec 10 2004, 03:11 AM
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Our group did a similar to "Blackhawk Down" Scenario once.

Those tend to suck ammo at a tremendous rate.
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Raygun
post Dec 10 2004, 03:14 AM
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In about thirteen years of playing Shadowrun, I've run into the occasion to reload maybe three times.

The first time was in the first game I ever played. Playing the elf street samurai out of the back of the SSC, I rolled an initiative so high (67 on 3D6) that I leveled three out of four of the opposition with an FN HAR, then took cover and reloaded before anyone else went. The next guy in the group to go, a troll street sam, killed the last guy. Directly after that, he opened a door into the next room and promptly took nine rounds upside the head from the guy on the other side of it. And lived. hahaha! First edition...
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iPad
post Dec 10 2004, 03:21 AM
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Well the situation I described above, I wasnt using combat pool and didnt have smart link then.
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Kanada Ten
post Dec 10 2004, 03:33 AM
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Back in the day we used a separate sheet of gird paper with sections pencil traced to represent clips and would mark off the bullets as they went. Several clips each were used every mission against the hordes of ninjii I poured upon them, along with boxes of grenades. Of course, we blasted through the front doors every time.

It's still fun to have a little gang war now and again, you know, to keep the PCs on their toes. Demon rat armies and shedim, oh my.
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toturi
post Dec 10 2004, 03:37 AM
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QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
It's still fun to have a little gang war now and again, you know, to keep the PCs on their toes. Demon rat armies and shedim, oh my.

Flesh Form Demon Rat [Insert favorite insect spirit type here] armies. Mutated metahuman Shedim. Drones, lot of drones. All of those eat up ammo at a fearful rate.
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Lindt
post Dec 10 2004, 04:11 AM
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I have had to reload a few times, mostly because my PCs tend to use revolvers and shotguns. That 7 round problem and all...
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sidartha
post Dec 10 2004, 04:40 AM
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I recall having to reload a sporting/sniper rifle once.
All I'll say about that situation is Azlatan Jaguars are bastards to kill. :cyber:
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Snow_Fox
post Dec 10 2004, 04:58 AM
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In genneral yeah, if you need to reload long arms, in a SHADOWrun, things are in the crapper. Pistols, those can need reloading, especially if you use revolvers.

We did do one minicampign set in CFS fighting Imperial Occupation forces. That lead to some hot and heavy firefights.
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 10 2004, 04:59 AM
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Define "in the heat of battle"? If I've used up more than two or three rounds and I get a few actions without a visible target or anyone shooting directly at me, I'll often swap magazines.

~J
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U_Fester
post Dec 10 2004, 05:23 AM
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I have had to change in battle in both heavy fire and durring a quick break. I did find out the hard way that you do not throw down clips full of XXP on the ground... especially if it is near the third rail.
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Arethusa
post Dec 10 2004, 05:35 AM
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Uh, ammunition wouldn't go off if you threw it on an electrified rail/anything else. The ammunition doesn't complete a circuit, and is therefore not going to overheat and discharge. Hell, if it touches the rail/whatever on two points, it's still the same electric potential, so still no discharge.
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Tarantula
post Dec 10 2004, 05:44 AM
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I think he meant from 3 stories up, onto the ground floor. Which could cause a sufficient impact to set at least one round off, which since they're explosive, would most likely set the remainder of the clip off.
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kevyn668
post Dec 10 2004, 05:55 AM
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Really? I always thought explosive rounds were more stable than that.

edit: what makes you think he was 3 stories up?
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Arethusa
post Dec 10 2004, 05:59 AM
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Explosive rounds are more stable than that. Dropping a bullet from three stories up is not sufficient to set off any center fire round, much less any in a magazine, explosive or otherwise.

And nothing even suggests a three story drop.
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Gyro the Greek S...
post Dec 10 2004, 06:06 AM
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Au contraire, Arethusa.

I reference the Darwin Award where a man used a bullet to use as a fuse in his car, and his lost nads would like to have a chat with you. :dead:
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Arethusa
post Dec 10 2004, 06:34 AM
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Actually, that's really the point. Used as a fuse, the bullet completes a circuit, heats up, and discharges (rather pathetically, considering the complete lack of a barrel and the fact that you can't fit anything larger than a .22 in there). If you throw a bullet on an electrified fence, however, even if it connects to the fence at two points, there will be no circuit because both points have identical electric potential.

Also, I would advise against believing anything you read in the Darwin Awards. The bullet fuse is a classic urban myth, and comes in a viarety of flavors. It may or may not have ever happened, but I wouldn't bet on it.
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