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> Plausible Research for SR?, Bio-encapsulation, Booste & Mutaware
Botch
post Dec 13 2004, 04:31 PM
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I was looking about for some research material for runners to steal that whilst of great value, was also pretty useless for the same runners to use. These were 2 ideas I was toying with. Are they compatible with SR tech and magic, but not at current levels of tech/magic, maybe in 10-odd years?

1) Bio-encapsulation - A technique for reducing essence loss from cyberware by enclosing the implant with a bioware interface that is tailored to effectively produce bio-electricity and screen the host from contaminates introduced by the cyberware.

2) Booste - A drug-style compound (similar to awakened halucigenics or FAB) that temporarily enables mundanes to have a magic rating, but causes real magic point loss on the comedown. Safe for mundanes, if you ignore the addiction, lethal to "real" awakened power.

3) Mutaware - A once only treatment to the subject's DNA that boosts an attribute point by 1 only. This works by mutating the subject towards an normal ideal (Att = 1-6, ex. racial mod.) whilst being minor enough that magic is not effected.

Repeat, not looking for confirmation of valid current SR tech, but whether this could be possible with SR tech that is 2074 or later. What are your views?
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Toptomcat
post Dec 13 2004, 04:53 PM
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For 2074, looks fine- maybe even a little underpowered- but from a standpoint of being useless to runners, it fails miserably.
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GunnerJ
post Dec 13 2004, 05:01 PM
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The idea of "valuable, but useless" stuff should be things the runners are not equiped or trained to exploit. For example, a team I GMed for was once paid for a run by getting a recording of meistersinger (awakened humpback whale) songs. They were told they'd be paid something of great value, so they did some research and found that meistersinger songs have intrinsic magical properties in their rhythm and structure that make them useful for designing spells, foci, etc. It was the sort of thing that would take magical researchers years to really get a grips on how to use it, so it wasn't any use to the runners, but they sold it for a good price to a university.

Note that while the end benefits of the research mihgt have benefitted them, it was far too abstract for them to use on their own. They pretty much just had to sell it; they weren't going to figure out how to use it. Now the ideas you present... if we're talking about plans for such technology, then sure, but an actual prototype? No way.
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mfb
post Dec 13 2004, 05:02 PM
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well, he's saying that the data itself will be useless to the runners; it won't be far enough along in the research and development process to derive anything usable from.
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Moon-Hawk
post Dec 13 2004, 05:06 PM
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1) Sounds like a neat idea for the near-SR-future. It could shift a portion of the essence cost toward bio-index.

2) Again, it sounds very cool, but considerably more problematic. Even if you could get a magic point or two, you still would need skills to do most stuff. I suppose you could bond a focus, but what happens when the drug wears off? Lots of tricky issues, but a nifty idea.

3) SOTA 2063. Although only physical attributes as of 2063. Mental attributes by 2074? Eh, maybe.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Dec 13 2004, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (Botch)
I was looking about for some research material for runners to steal that whilst of great value, was also pretty useless for the same runners to use.

Make something up. The less detail you can give to the runners, the less they will try and figure out how to use it. My suggestion is to use abstracts to explain it making seem more exotic, therefor more valuable and less usefull except to sell to some corp.
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Botch
post Dec 13 2004, 07:39 PM
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QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
3) SOTA 2063. Although only physical attributes as of 2063. Mental attributes by 2074? Eh, maybe.

Bugger, co-evolution stikes again.
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Xavroc
post Dec 13 2004, 07:43 PM
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2) Cool but must be limited. I think Threat 2 had something similar in it. Bizarre ritual for drug info and you got your game info. In the book I think they used the ritual for temping burnouts(magic types who have lost their powers) to join the cult. If you do this, SR scientist have probally figured out where the magic part of DNA is. Which could amount to a cool James Bond like game. Hmmmm. :starts to work on the story:
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Herald of Verjig...
post Dec 13 2004, 07:47 PM
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Genetech is 2063 still has drawbacks besides price. Maybe make the mutaware thing effectively a superior way to induce bioware or other genetech that results in lower bio-index. Of course, at the current levels of research, have a 50% (or higher) chance of developing a nasty cancer instead of the intended alteration.
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Botch
post Dec 13 2004, 08:01 PM
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I was thinking of mutaware to be incompatible with most bio/cyberware, remove too much of yourself and the bonuses go. Take more than 1 point per attribute or more than 3 "mutas" and you just started the (short) timer to for the trip to the cancer city morgue, as well as magic loss.

The benefit? No magic loss.

But, HoV, yours is good too.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Dec 13 2004, 08:03 PM
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Big additional rule sets can be fun, but adding a subtle mod to a pre-existing one is easier.
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Botch
post Dec 13 2004, 08:45 PM
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It all supposed to be tech that hasn't hit the working proto-type stage yet. I mainly don't won't to be tripped up by something esoteric as "astral shadows" or co-virgent evolution with a bit of SR I haven't read.

Does anybody else have some funky research projects?
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Cray74
post Dec 13 2004, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (Botch)
1) Bio-encapsulation - A technique for reducing essence loss from cyberware by enclosing the implant with a bioware interface that is tailored to effectively produce bio-electricity and screen the host from contaminates introduced by the cyberware.

This isn't wouldn't work because "bio-electricity" has nothing to do with Essence loss. The extra shielding would just cause further Essence loss because it's another modification of the body's function, essentially "interfering with the natural order of the body."

Just introduce gamma-grade cyberware, which is something that should be around eventually.

QUOTE
3) Mutaware - A once only treatment to the subject's DNA that boosts an attribute point by 1 only.  This works by mutating the subject towards an normal ideal (Att = 1-6, ex. racial mod.) whilst being minor enough that magic is not effected.


This is already (mostly) in place with Genetech. See: SOTA 2063. I won't say "no magic loss," but the bio-index impact is low.
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lodestar
post Dec 13 2004, 10:20 PM
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QUOTE (Botch)
It all supposed to be tech that hasn't hit the working proto-type stage yet. I mainly don't won't to be tripped up by something esoteric as "astral shadows" or co-virgent evolution with a bit of SR I haven't read.

Does anybody else have some funky research projects?

Research into cybermancy stuff could always be good, I'd imagine that there might be tons of research done on the subject out there that would probably be very valuable to one corp or another. This also raises the possibility of running into various cybermantic guardians, etc if you know what I mean. Most of the stuff might be effectively useless to the characters because it might be dangerous to them - examples might be failed prototype items - a MBW system, a new cyberskull etc. Because it has some serious defect to it, it would be effectively useless (or maybe outright hazardous) but useful to a corp say doing their own parallel research. Lots of things can fall into this sort of category from magical ritual reseach to actual pieces of cyberware. Which brings me to another point to ponder...
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Fix-it
post Dec 13 2004, 10:30 PM
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Energy production, teleportation (with an entire facility worth of equipment)
Advanced composites, next year's trid show episodes... just take anything really.
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Cray74
post Dec 13 2004, 11:30 PM
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QUOTE (Botch)
Does anybody else have some funky research projects?

Aerospace ideas:

*High thrust fusion rockets suitable for...

--Space-to-space travel, allowing reasonable flight times to Mars (a couple of weeks) by large (i.e., manned) spacecraft, reducing the amount of fuel needed for Earth-to-moon flights, and visiting the asteroids with manned craft; OR

--Upper stage boosters or scramjet final phase orbital motors. Not enough thrust to get off the ground, but enough to increase the payloads of current vehicles and easily land and takeoff from smaller bodies, like the moon and asteroids; OR

--Really high thrust fusion rockets that can take off from Earth with sizable payloads. With fuel needs reduced dramatically, much larger payloads can be put into Earth orbit.

*Rotating tethers to ease access to orbit and the moon. Much easier to build than complete Earth-to-orbit bean stalks:

http://www.tethers.com/MXTethers3.html
http://www.tethers.com/TethersGeneral.html

A network of tethers can allow a spaceplane to get to orbit while only supplying 80-90% of the needed velocity itself, netting huge fuel weight savings (because rockets follow a nasty exponential curve between fuel and weight). High orbit tethers can catch the ship after launch and toss it toward the moon for no additional fuel (or fling it toward Mars or the Earth-moon Lagrange points). A tether in lunar orbit can catch the ship and lower it gently to the lunar surface...and pick it back up later.

These should open more space-based campaign options to PCs.
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Voran
post Dec 14 2004, 12:52 PM
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No surprise coming from me....

Genetically enhanced embryos (spelling?) Maybe not quite Khan material, but the precursor to it. Sealed in specialized cannisters that don't immediately indicate their contents, but look like humanoid embryos. (Blade 2 reaper embryos for example). Course, without the proper facilities or means to even open the cannisters correctly, you've basically got a bizarre paperweight.

I'm also thinking along the lines of Terminator 2. Where Dyson had the remainder bits of the 1st terminator, heavily damaged so not immediately useful, but pointing research in a improved direction. It took them roughly from the time of movie 1 to movie 2 for Dyson to make any real headway.

This could be applied to cybernetics, cyberdeck stuff, whatever. Just have the pieces damaged or very flawed prototypes that aren't immediately functional, but would point research and development towards better things. It becomes a scope issue, make it beyond a runners resources to do much with.
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Botch
post Dec 14 2004, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE (Cray74)
QUOTE (Botch)
1) Bio-encapsulation - A technique for reducing essence loss from cyberware by enclosing the implant with a bioware interface that is tailored to effectively produce bio-electricity and screen the host from contaminates introduced by the cyberware.

This isn't wouldn't work because "bio-electricity" has nothing to do with Essence loss. The extra shielding would just cause further Essence loss because it's another modification of the body's function, essentially "interfering with the natural order of the body."

So what in your opinion does cause essence loss. I know it has been argued over and over and over and over again, but I would like to know your reasoning for essense loss.

The idea of bio-encapsulation was that a host bonded to the bioware and then the cyberware is interfaced to the bioware. Obviously this means that surface cyberware could be targeted by magic.

This is 'ware functioning like a datajack and a cyberdeck, with the bioware the jack and the cyber the deck.

Like the space ideas.
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mfb
post Dec 14 2004, 07:16 PM
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the official line is that essence loss is a result of changing the neural system. this is a completely insane explanation, but there it is.

however, setting up a bioware interface between the cyber and the body isn't a bad idea.
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Cray74
post Dec 14 2004, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (Botch)
So what in your opinion does cause essence loss.  I know it has been argued over and over and over and over again, but I would like to know your reasoning for essense loss.

Essence loss is fairly explicable using the Earthdawn concept of "patterns," the universe's blueprints for people and objects. A passive implant like bonelacing is altering the body's performance by making the bones tougher - ergo, the "true pattern" is altered. Or rather, the body is altered away from the original "true pattern," and the change manifests as essence loss. Titanium bonelacing (which draws no "bio electricity" and does not interface with the nervous system) alters the recipient more than plastic bonelacing (higher body bonus), hence the higher essence cost.

The bio-electricity concept for essence loss does not work because the (meta)human body generates essentially no electricity to speak of. Yes, there's electrical activity in the brain and nerves, but the wattage is negligible. You'd need 25000 brains to power an LED.

The impact on the nervous system does not work because, pointedly, some very Essence-hungry cyberware doesn't affect the nervous system.

QUOTE
The idea of bio-encapsulation was that a host bonded to the bioware and then the cyberware is interfaced to the bioware. Obviously this means that surface cyberware could be targeted by magic.


Since the available explanations for Essense loss are dubious, I'd recommend you eliminate the "fluff" explanations for reducing Essence cost for 2070s cyberware and just introduce "Gamma Grade" cyberware at 30-40% essence cost.
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hyzmarca
post Dec 15 2004, 08:24 AM
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My perception of essence loss comes from the 'your cyberware is you for magical purposes' rule. Cyberware doesn't have a true pattern. Implanting it is essentialy the same as ripping off a piece of your true pattern and fillin gup the hole with inert material (black spots in the arua, ect.). This is probably as traimatic to as being shot in the head, if not more so. The trauma just isn't as obvious.

Bioware doesn't cause essence loss because it is alive and has a true pattern. It causes bioindex because the true pattern is different from your own, thus by installing bioware you put a foreign pattern into your own.

The problem with bioencapsulation is that the foreign pattern you are attaching to your own has a big hole in it, thus there will be some essence loss. The question is how much. It is quite possible that some of it will be reduced. However, it probably wouldn't work with all ware, especially not reflex boosters.

Take a heavily cybered rabid bager, strap it to your head, and attach its central nervous sys tem to yours. Can you use its cybereyes? Almost certainly. Can you use its gyromounted minigun. Indeed you can. Can you use its wired reflexes? Only to launch badger-based melee attacks. Will you eventually die from rabies that has already traveled across the link between your brains? Indeed.

Will the badger cause bio-index? Yes. Will the badger's ware eat up your essence? That is a very good question. Bioencapsulation isn't very different from this.
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Fortune
post Dec 15 2004, 08:30 AM
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Badgers? We don't need no stinking badgers!
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JaronK
post Dec 15 2004, 07:06 PM
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Woot! Cybernetic rabid badger attachments! Now that's advanced R&D.

JaronK
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Cray74
post Dec 15 2004, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Will the badger's ware eat up your essence? That is a very good question.

Answer: if you're using the cyberware, yes, it will cause Essence loss. Trying to pass the buck to the badger doesn't avoid that fact that your functionality has been altered by cyberware.

QUOTE
Cyberware doesn't have a true pattern.


Actually, as I recall, every object has a pattern.
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BitBasher
post Dec 15 2004, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE
Actually, as I recall, every object has a pattern.
Yeah, but a pattern != your pattern.
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