 Conjurers and Spell Points, Do they get them, and what to do. |
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 Dec 16 2004, 09:02 PM
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#1
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Man In The Machine  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105  |
Well... yeah. Do they get them, and what to do with them? Or did I miss this in Mits or BBB somewhere...
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Dec 16 2004, 09:10 PM
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#2
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
I think they get them (could be wrong though).
I guess use them to bond foci and spirits? |
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Dec 16 2004, 09:20 PM
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#3
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
1 spell point per force point of Spirit or Elemental. If I remember correctly, Elementalists also have to pay for conjuring materials out of resources.
Hermetic conjurers can start with 5 force 6 and 1 force 5 Elementals on call, which somewhat makes up for their lack of spells. |
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Dec 16 2004, 09:25 PM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 5-December 04 Member No.: 6,869 |
I'm guessing they do. You can use Spellpoints to have spirits bound to you at the start of the game. I'm not sure of the system; but, I'm pretty sure it's in the main book somewhere.
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Dec 16 2004, 10:16 PM
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#5
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
Some GMs will let you initiate with starting Spell Points.
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Dec 16 2004, 10:21 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 6,736 |
It costs 1 spell point per force point of bound elemental, and 2 spell points per service that elemental owes you. A force 6 elemental that owes you 3 favors will cost you a dozen spell points. You don't have to pay for their summoning materials, which is nice, but you are probably better off investing at least some spell points to bond foci. 4 spirit foci (one per element) will probably result in more favors from higher force elementals in the long run than starting out with one who does a few things and then vanishes.
As for a shamanic conjurer...why would you do that to yourself? |
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Dec 16 2004, 10:24 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-July 03 Member No.: 4,963 |
The best way for a conjurer to use his spell points is on an ally spirit. Initiation is a good choice too, but GMs tend to be a lot more resistant to the idea of initiation at char gen than the idea of owning an ally spirit at char gen.
Do not under any circumstances spend so much as a SINGLE SPELL POINT on a pre-bound elemental. You're much better off just sucking it up on the first run and summoning a bunch of elementals after that with pre-bought elemental summoning materials than putting karma in a pile and setting fire to it like that. A good idea is to ask your GM if you can spend unspent karma rerolls at the end of a run on summoning elementals. |
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Dec 17 2004, 12:54 AM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
Also remember that if your using BP's you can sell them back making the Conjurer cost only 18BP's
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Dec 17 2004, 02:04 AM
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#9
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UMS O.G. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 444 Joined: 18-May 04 Member No.: 6,335 |
Or you can take a million nuyen, buy a rating 6 power focus and bond the sucker right off. Ally spirits are hampered because they don't have sorcery and many iniation metamagic abilities are sorcery based. The power focus is always useful IMHO.
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Dec 17 2004, 02:44 AM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 26-April 04 Member No.: 6,284 |
Is there any reason a conjurer needs a high magic rating? They're not casting spells, so they don't have to worry about spell level vs magic rating, so can they then load up on 5 points of cyber?
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Dec 17 2004, 02:45 AM
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#11
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Spirit force is limited to Magic Rating x 2, IIRC, which is also where focus addition kicks in. Ward size is also limited by Magic Rating.
Not that taking a couple points of magic loss is that bad, even less so if the character initiates twice at creation. This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: Dec 17 2004, 02:55 AM |
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Dec 17 2004, 02:52 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 190 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,787 |
BeCKs makes it so you have to buy spell points out of your starting total. You can build a Conjurer for a fair amount less then a sorcerer under that system, in which case shamanic makes some sense. It comes down to Nature Spirit VS Elemental at that point, and elementals lose quite a bit of their usefulness without their ability to sustain spells, help research, etc. |
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Dec 17 2004, 03:05 AM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 26-April 04 Member No.: 6,284 |
curses, you're right...
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Dec 17 2004, 03:50 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 152 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,785 |
A lot of shamanic traditions (Aborigine and those Trans-Polar guys come to mind) emphasize working with spirits a lot more than sorcery, so it could be a flavor thing. Nature spirits aren't the powerhouses that elementals are, but they're still handy. Search and Conceal are pretty sexy. But you could always just be a Spider Shamanist and keep some access to Sorcery. I suppose next you'll scoff at the aspected Voodoo Conjurer... ;) |
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Dec 17 2004, 03:57 AM
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#15
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
I think he means, if you're a shamanic conjuror, why on earth would you waste your spellpoints on a presummoned spirit? It'll last at most until sunup or sundown, which means you just blew all the invested points.
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 Dec 17 2004, 04:22 AM
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#16
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
So the jury stands at (because, yes, shamanic conjurer) sell the spell points for build?
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Dec 17 2004, 04:33 AM
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#17
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Initiate and bond foci if you can. Shamanic conjurers practically require Invoking.
This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: Dec 17 2004, 04:34 AM |
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Dec 17 2004, 04:35 AM
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#18
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Yes, unless your GM lets you initiate with spellpoints at char-gen (using the optional rule from Shadowrun Companion). One of my favorite allocations for a conjuror is 18 points to initiate once (usually picking up invoking), 12 points to bond a Force: 6 spirit focus, and turn the last 5 points in for a build point.
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Dec 17 2004, 05:22 AM
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#19
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
All of the above are, as far as I know, House Rules (which I and almost everyone I know also use), as Conjurers do not gain Spell Points by canon.
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Dec 17 2004, 05:25 AM
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#20
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
See thats what Im trying to find where it says that. It would be pretty shoddy (provided you where playing a hermetic) to denie them even the ability to have elementals at cargen. So I say to someone :proof: ??
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Dec 17 2004, 05:27 AM
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#21
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
The thing is, where does it state that they do get Spell Points?
Like I said, pretty much everyone rules that they get them, but that doesn't make it canon. |
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Dec 17 2004, 05:38 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 6,736 |
I was actually saying that it seems funny (odd, not haha) to have a shaman conjurer. Nature spirit abilities rock, but being limited to one spirit at a time seems crippling to me if you don't have sorcery to support the character. Also, conjurers do get spell points
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Dec 17 2004, 05:39 AM
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#23
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
SR3 p55 "All Aspected Magicians start off with 35 spell points" |
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Dec 17 2004, 05:40 AM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
SR3, pg 55: "All aspected magicians start off with 35 Spell Points."
Not "all aspected magicians with the sorcery skill", and not "all aspected magicians except conjurors." Pretty straightforward, really. If you disagree, by all means, point out to me where the conjuror subset of aspected magicians are specifically denied access to spell points at chargen. (edit: sweet...) This post has been edited by Jason Farlander: Dec 17 2004, 05:41 AM |
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Dec 17 2004, 06:15 AM
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#25
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Cool ... one less House Rule. :)
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