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> Conjurers and Spell Points, Do they get them, and what to do.
Lindt
post Dec 16 2004, 09:02 PM
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Well... yeah. Do they get them, and what to do with them? Or did I miss this in Mits or BBB somewhere...
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FrostyNSO
post Dec 16 2004, 09:10 PM
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I think they get them (could be wrong though).

I guess use them to bond foci and spirits?
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hyzmarca
post Dec 16 2004, 09:20 PM
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1 spell point per force point of Spirit or Elemental. If I remember correctly, Elementalists also have to pay for conjuring materials out of resources.

Hermetic conjurers can start with 5 force 6 and 1 force 5 Elementals on call, which somewhat makes up for their lack of spells.
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Walknuki
post Dec 16 2004, 09:25 PM
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I'm guessing they do. You can use Spellpoints to have spirits bound to you at the start of the game. I'm not sure of the system; but, I'm pretty sure it's in the main book somewhere.
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RedmondLarry
post Dec 16 2004, 10:16 PM
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Some GMs will let you initiate with starting Spell Points.
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ES_Riddle
post Dec 16 2004, 10:21 PM
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It costs 1 spell point per force point of bound elemental, and 2 spell points per service that elemental owes you. A force 6 elemental that owes you 3 favors will cost you a dozen spell points. You don't have to pay for their summoning materials, which is nice, but you are probably better off investing at least some spell points to bond foci. 4 spirit foci (one per element) will probably result in more favors from higher force elementals in the long run than starting out with one who does a few things and then vanishes.

As for a shamanic conjurer...why would you do that to yourself?
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Modesitt
post Dec 16 2004, 10:24 PM
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The best way for a conjurer to use his spell points is on an ally spirit. Initiation is a good choice too, but GMs tend to be a lot more resistant to the idea of initiation at char gen than the idea of owning an ally spirit at char gen.

Do not under any circumstances spend so much as a SINGLE SPELL POINT on a pre-bound elemental. You're much better off just sucking it up on the first run and summoning a bunch of elementals after that with pre-bought elemental summoning materials than putting karma in a pile and setting fire to it like that. A good idea is to ask your GM if you can spend unspent karma rerolls at the end of a run on summoning elementals.
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Shockwave_IIc
post Dec 17 2004, 12:54 AM
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Also remember that if your using BP's you can sell them back making the Conjurer cost only 18BP's
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Necro Tech
post Dec 17 2004, 02:04 AM
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Or you can take a million nuyen, buy a rating 6 power focus and bond the sucker right off. Ally spirits are hampered because they don't have sorcery and many iniation metamagic abilities are sorcery based. The power focus is always useful IMHO.
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draco aardvark
post Dec 17 2004, 02:44 AM
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Is there any reason a conjurer needs a high magic rating? They're not casting spells, so they don't have to worry about spell level vs magic rating, so can they then load up on 5 points of cyber?
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Kanada Ten
post Dec 17 2004, 02:45 AM
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Spirit force is limited to Magic Rating x 2, IIRC, which is also where focus addition kicks in. Ward size is also limited by Magic Rating.

Not that taking a couple points of magic loss is that bad, even less so if the character initiates twice at creation.

This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: Dec 17 2004, 02:55 AM
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Club
post Dec 17 2004, 02:52 AM
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QUOTE (ES_Riddle)


As for a shamanic conjurer...why would you do that to yourself?

BeCKs makes it so you have to buy spell points out of your starting total. You can build a Conjurer for a fair amount less then a sorcerer under that system, in which case shamanic makes some sense. It comes down to Nature Spirit VS Elemental at that point, and elementals lose quite a bit of their usefulness without their ability to sustain spells, help research, etc.
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draco aardvark
post Dec 17 2004, 03:05 AM
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QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
Spirit force is limited to Magic Rating x 2, IIRC, which is also where focus addition kicks in.  Ward size is also limited by Magic Rating.

Not that taking a couple points of magic loss is that bad, even less so if the character initiates twice at creation.

curses, you're right...

QUOTE (SR3 @ top left of pg188)
If the spirit's Force is greater than the summoner's Magic Attribute, the Drain causes physical damage. A character cannot summon a spirit with a Force greater than twice his Magic Attribute.
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akarenti
post Dec 17 2004, 03:50 AM
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QUOTE (ES_Riddle)
As for a shamanic conjurer...why would you do that to yourself?


A lot of shamanic traditions (Aborigine and those Trans-Polar guys come to mind) emphasize working with spirits a lot more than sorcery, so it could be a flavor thing. Nature spirits aren't the powerhouses that elementals are, but they're still handy. Search and Conceal are pretty sexy. But you could always just be a Spider Shamanist and keep some access to Sorcery.

I suppose next you'll scoff at the aspected Voodoo Conjurer... ;)

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Cain
post Dec 17 2004, 03:57 AM
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I think he means, if you're a shamanic conjuror, why on earth would you waste your spellpoints on a presummoned spirit? It'll last at most until sunup or sundown, which means you just blew all the invested points.
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Lindt
post Dec 17 2004, 04:22 AM
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So the jury stands at (because, yes, shamanic conjurer) sell the spell points for build?
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Kanada Ten
post Dec 17 2004, 04:33 AM
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Initiate and bond foci if you can. Shamanic conjurers practically require Invoking.

This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: Dec 17 2004, 04:34 AM
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Glyph
post Dec 17 2004, 04:35 AM
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Yes, unless your GM lets you initiate with spellpoints at char-gen (using the optional rule from Shadowrun Companion). One of my favorite allocations for a conjuror is 18 points to initiate once (usually picking up invoking), 12 points to bond a Force: 6 spirit focus, and turn the last 5 points in for a build point.
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Fortune
post Dec 17 2004, 05:22 AM
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All of the above are, as far as I know, House Rules (which I and almost everyone I know also use), as Conjurers do not gain Spell Points by canon.
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Lindt
post Dec 17 2004, 05:25 AM
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See thats what Im trying to find where it says that. It would be pretty shoddy (provided you where playing a hermetic) to denie them even the ability to have elementals at cargen. So I say to someone :proof: ??
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Fortune
post Dec 17 2004, 05:27 AM
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The thing is, where does it state that they do get Spell Points?

Like I said, pretty much everyone rules that they get them, but that doesn't make it canon.
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ES_Riddle
post Dec 17 2004, 05:38 AM
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I was actually saying that it seems funny (odd, not haha) to have a shaman conjurer. Nature spirit abilities rock, but being limited to one spirit at a time seems crippling to me if you don't have sorcery to support the character.

Also, conjurers do get spell points

QUOTE (SR3 @ pg 55)
All aspected magicians start off with 35 spell points.
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hyzmarca
post Dec 17 2004, 05:39 AM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
The thing is, where does it state that they do get Spell Points?

Like I said, pretty much everyone rules that they get them, but that doesn't make it canon.

SR3 p55 "All Aspected Magicians start off with 35 spell points"
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Jason Farlander
post Dec 17 2004, 05:40 AM
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SR3, pg 55: "All aspected magicians start off with 35 Spell Points."

Not "all aspected magicians with the sorcery skill", and not "all aspected magicians except conjurors." Pretty straightforward, really. If you disagree, by all means, point out to me where the conjuror subset of aspected magicians are specifically denied access to spell points at chargen.

(edit: sweet...)

This post has been edited by Jason Farlander: Dec 17 2004, 05:41 AM
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Fortune
post Dec 17 2004, 06:15 AM
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Cool ... one less House Rule. :)
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