 White Wolf and Nancy. A. Collins sue Sony Pictures |
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 Sep 5 2003, 11:40 PM
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#1
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Prime Runner  Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51  |
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Sep 6 2003, 12:18 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,205 |
I was wondering about the connection between this movie and White Wolf. Interesting story... I hope the gaming company wins (if their case has merit).
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Sep 6 2003, 12:21 AM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,353 Joined: 5-June 02 Member No.: 2,840 |
I had a feeling the movie and the World of Darkenss were similar, but i had no idea that someone had written a similar fictional story.
I hope White Wolf and Collins wins if they are indeed right. |
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Sep 6 2003, 12:50 AM
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#4
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Unfortunately, copyright laws being what they are, their chances of winning are damn small (about the same as Wizkids suing the guys that make the Matrix movies), unless of course it's proven that the story really is derived from Collins' screenplay.
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Sep 6 2003, 06:41 AM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 26-February 02 From: World Square Car Park, Sydney Member No.: 1,294 |
I reckon they've a chance, I mean JK Rowling successfully sued over a similar book in russia, she's written 6 books and made that stick, white wolf have written a lot more than that.
Harry Potter and The International Order Of Copyright Assuming that america is wto compliant, seems a fair comparison between the two cases. |
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 Sep 6 2003, 07:21 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 26-February 02 From: United Kingdom Member No.: 195 |
Does anyone have information on what these "60 points of unique similarity" actually are?
At the moment I remain extremely skeptical of this case's merit. A supernatural twist on the old Romeo and Juliet plot (with added tight black PVC) is hardly a difficult plot to come up with. I expect it's been done innumerable times already. I can't see any exclusively White Wolf elements from what I know of the movie to date. Not without those details anyway. |
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Sep 6 2003, 11:50 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 17-August 03 From: The Waves. Care to Join Me? Member No.: 5,505 |
I may be wrong but if I recall from a similar thread on the White Wolf forums a while ago, one of the main sticking points was with the Vampire houses and Werewolf "tribes" or whatever they're called in Underworld. One of the big problems was that these are almost identical to the ones in V: tM and W:tA (in other words, a group of sorcerous vampires, a group of crazy ones etc.). IN addition a lot of powers displayed by the vampires and werewolves are similar. I may be wrong though. It was a long time the thread was and at that stage the word was White Wolf wasn't going to sue. I want to know what changed their mind. I personally hope it doesn't succeed. Not wanting to start a flame war but my personal opinion on copyright laws are that they're a little excessive. In this case, how cares if they're similar? Neither company is losing money as it is and it might even boost sales in White Wolf stuff if the movie's a hit. |
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Sep 6 2003, 11:53 AM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 12-March 02 From: London, UK Member No.: 2,333 |
Well, the Trailer screams "WHITE WOLF" something fierce anyway. :eek:
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Sep 6 2003, 11:57 AM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 12-March 02 From: London, UK Member No.: 2,333 |
That's not the point. Sony is using work done by White Wolf (fictional universe development) without remunerating them. That's theft, pure and simple. |
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Sep 6 2003, 12:02 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 17-August 03 From: The Waves. Care to Join Me? Member No.: 5,505 |
It hasn't been proven. And besides, similarities within a genre that White Wolf is huge in is to be expected. What's important is whether the work is derived from White Wolf or simply similar (through coincidence). ANd that is, IMO impossible to prove either way. And that's why I think it's stupid. For example: A world with werewolves and vampires fighting each other? Is that a breach of copyright? A love story between a vampire and werewolf or any other supernatural species... it's been done... several hundred thousand times. Seriously, we need to see exactly what the alleged copied material is before we judge either way. But like I said IMO. |
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Sep 6 2003, 12:19 PM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 12-March 02 From: London, UK Member No.: 2,333 |
Really? I take some pride in believing I have a rather solid culture in fantasy, but from the top of my head, right now, I can't think of even one other example, except maybe Laurell Hamilton's novels. And even they don't have the similarity that is obvious between Undeworld and the World of Darkness. |
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Sep 6 2003, 12:25 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 17-August 03 From: The Waves. Care to Join Me? Member No.: 5,505 |
could you please name some similiarities between Underworld and White Wolf? Solid ones? Not things like Vampires being "clans" or the Lycans also being called "Garou". That's not copyright breacking stuff to the best of my knowledge (or the knowledge of the folks on the White Wolf board). I'm not trying to creat an argument. I'm just genuinely curious. Initial impressions at least to me indicate that this is a movie influenced by the Matrix and gothy supernatural stuff (like the Crow or even Batman). Seriously, I don't know enough about this to make a judgement either way. The 17 points of infringement I still don't know of, but initial impressions are that they must be pretty major things (like a group of vampires in Underworld being called Malkavians or vampires descending from Caine). If that is the case then I'm on White Wolf's side. If it isn't the case, well, I'll just stay out of it :D |
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Sep 6 2003, 12:38 PM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 12-March 02 From: London, UK Member No.: 2,333 |
Fair enough. It does have graphic links to the Crow and Matrix too. However the whole Vampire/Werewolves conflict is trademarked "White Wolf" in my mind. Maybe I'm just prejudiced here. I don't think anyone had done it before.
In most of the fantasy culture, Vampires are solitary. Even Anne Rice's Vampires only mingle from time to time. The idea of vampires as clanned creatures is really something recent, and I belive it came from White Wolf's take on the myth. Similarity here is in the global, not the detail. A little like the first book in the Shannara series was en obvious cut and paste from LOTR with only the details changed. |
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Sep 6 2003, 12:43 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 287 Joined: 28-March 03 From: In the middle of the SOX Member No.: 4,350 |
Actually, from the trailer I'd call the movie influenced by Matrix (for the slo-mo scenes) and heavily influenced by the World of Darkness. Whether that influence crosses the line into copyright infringement is another issue. To me, just from the trailer I couldn't help but think I was watching a WoD movie. Of course, without having seen the entire movie, I can't really judge that. |
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Sep 6 2003, 12:50 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 17-August 03 From: The Waves. Care to Join Me? Member No.: 5,505 |
I hate the Shannara series :) Now we see how tricky this can be. Seriously. Vampire/Werewolf conflict is practically anti-White Wolf IMO, as is Werewolves as urban predators. The first is against the habit of avoiding cross overs and the second is so far against Werewolves as Amerindian-like defenders of nature I don't know where to begin. My point with that is that all this is based upon personal opinion or instinctively saying "White Wolf has dealt with the gothic supernatural for years, therefore they're right. Go White Wolf" Until we know the exact details of what these 60 points of infringement are and how they tie in with the WoD and by the sounds of it, the works of the author in question (a vampiric vampire hunter. Now that's original :D ) I suggest that any judgements made cannot hold any real merit. (Serious question: Does thhe innocent until proven guilty thing apply in copyright laws? Or is it more confusing?) |
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Sep 6 2003, 01:22 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 287 Joined: 28-March 03 From: In the middle of the SOX Member No.: 4,350 |
I'm having a few friends over later today. Both play WoD, so I'll show them the trailer without telling them anything about this dispute. I suggest trying the same experiment.
That way, we may actually get a consensus. |
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 Sep 6 2003, 02:01 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 12-March 02 From: London, UK Member No.: 2,333 |
*Koff*John Woo*koff* |
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Sep 6 2003, 02:06 PM
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#18
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
None of you paid any attention to what I said, did you?
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Sep 6 2003, 02:20 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 731 Joined: 25-March 02 From: Rye, New York Member No.: 2,470 |
From what I've seen about this movie, it was so obviously drawn from WW that I thought Sony had paid for the rights.
Sony has a reputation of playing fast and loose, remmeber last year they were caught out makingg up reviewers for it's movies and got called for, among other things, false advertising and using an actual critic's name without his approval. |
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| Guest_Raccoon Avatar_* |
Sep 6 2003, 02:41 PM
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#20
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Guests |
Sure we did. It was...um... something about werewolves :? Yup...very insightful I thought... |
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Sep 6 2003, 02:51 PM
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#21
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
Even is WW doesn't win, it's damn good publicity for them. Some kid goes see this movie, and comes out thinkining that is the coolest thing EVER. Then he remembers the whole lawsuit thing he saw in the news... Which teaches him he can play a game very similar to what he just saw.
And if they win, WW gets large amounts of movie money AND exposure. There's no reason why they wouldn't sue. Besides, the first time I saw the comercial for this movie, I looked for WW credits somewhere in the movie text thing and on the website, and I was surprised not to see any. In my mind, this movie is a rip-off. Hell, it was filmed in 4 months. They had to cut corners *somewhere*. |
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Sep 6 2003, 04:17 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 731 Joined: 25-March 02 From: Rye, New York Member No.: 2,470 |
It might be that Sony had no clue there was an RPG , some screen writer ripped off the game and handed it to Sony as his own work. They should have done due dilligence, but probably the whole thing was slapped together, hoping to get it out for Halloween. They probably are getting ready to kill the person who green lighted this.
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Sep 6 2003, 04:31 PM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
It's still VERY iffy about whether or not this will fly. I dinnae think WW has much of a case.
That said, there's been a rash of low-budget CGI-effect direct-to-DVD horror flicks 'round about, haven't there? |
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Sep 6 2003, 04:45 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,478 |
blade's vampires had clans, and wetworks vampires fought werewolves. the idea that white wolf somehow has a monopoly on the supernatural is ludicrous.
'course, most of the WoD players i've met were gothfuck losers, so that may be coloring my opinion against white wolf. |
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Sep 6 2003, 05:00 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 348 Joined: 20-June 03 Member No.: 4,782 |
Interresting, they have about 800 individual sightings on a map of the world describing seperate Vampire and Lycan cells. This is on the website. Talk about a substantial background of the script. It almost looks like they create a whole roleplaying game setting just for the movie before they even wrote the script.
LOL. Nm. Its just a place where visiters to the site can add to it themselves. Wow am I an idiot. Check out the North Pole. :love: |
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