 White Wolf and Nancy. A. Collins sue Sony Pictures |
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 Sep 7 2003, 04:09 PM
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#51
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Prime Runner  Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51  |
Sounds like you don't have the free Adobe Acrobat Reader installed. That would explain things.
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Sep 7 2003, 08:19 PM
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#52
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Target Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,464 |
I think there's a little case of the pot calling the kettle black (and gothic punk!).
Anyone else remember the amazing similarities between The Crow and White Wolf's "Risen" character types? I mean, they seriously might as well have just come out and said, that it was based completely on the comics (and, later, the film). Instead, The Crow only gets a passing mention in their "suitably themed and characterful works" chapter at the end of each book (along with music they like, etc, etc). |
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Sep 7 2003, 09:26 PM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 287 Joined: 28-March 03 From: In the middle of the SOX Member No.: 4,350 |
Uh, no, technically, you can't. That's only normal damage in WW. You could beat it into torpor, but kill it, no. 'Course, you could take piano wire and cut its head off. . . but a decent sword works much better for that purpose. For the record, AD&D Vampires can't be killed by wood, either. IIRC, only SR Vamps have that particular vulnerability. |
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Sep 7 2003, 10:00 PM
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#54
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Close. Actually, AD&D vampires can be killed by stabbing them through the heart with a wooden stake, cutting off their head, and sticking holy wafers in their mouth. I think if you just stake them, it only immobilizes them until the stake is removed. But without any called shot rules (although most AD&D DMs have some kind of house rule for that), it is only really applicable when you find one in its coffin. Also, in AD&D, vampires are pre-"gothy cool"; they are undead monsters, plain and simple (although the Ravenloft setting/Van Richten's Guide introduced a lot of variants, which might include the odd non-evil vampire or so - I don't have that supplement, so I don't know).
Actually, I kind of find the AD&D old-school undead monster vampires refreshing after all of the angsty, whining, gothy White Wolf spew. :D |
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Sep 7 2003, 10:54 PM
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#55
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 287 Joined: 28-March 03 From: In the middle of the SOX Member No.: 4,350 |
Yes, those are the things you need to do, and you do need to do all of them. Which is why I said that wood alone does not kill a Vamp. As for the angsty crap, it's nice the first 300 years of game time. After that, you just accept that you are what you are and get on with life. . . at least that's how I build my elders. :D |
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Sep 7 2003, 11:50 PM
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#56
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 17-August 03 From: The Waves. Care to Join Me? Member No.: 5,505 |
This is going to sound like paranoid, egotistical ranting but you can live with that :)
One of the things that really scares/irritates me about this is that it could serve to actually turn young writers (like me!) away from the genre. I mean, if White Wolf is going to sue Sony for what should really be public property (seriously, out of all that list I don't think any of it was invented by White Wolf except some of the names) what chance does an aspiring writer have? Especially if they're looking to make a career out of what is still a popular genre. |
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Sep 8 2003, 12:13 AM
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#57
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,757 Joined: 11-December 02 From: France Member No.: 3,723 |
Somebody says something around the line of "Imagination is the art of hiding your sources of inspiration."
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Sep 8 2003, 02:47 AM
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#58
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Professional Fixer Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 50 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 239 |
Slovotsky's Law #1 - Originality is just undetected plagairism.
:smokin: |
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Sep 8 2003, 12:51 PM
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#59
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 731 Joined: 25-March 02 From: Rye, New York Member No.: 2,470 |
Thanks for the post Adam, always good to go to the source.
I think AD&D vamps it's not wood that does it, they regenerate damage unless "cleansed by fire, or sunlight. |
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Sep 8 2003, 12:52 PM
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#60
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 731 Joined: 25-March 02 From: Rye, New York Member No.: 2,470 |
But this isn't original at any level. They're plugging it as an occult Romeo and Julliet and that goes back to at least the 1580's! |
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Sep 8 2003, 02:01 PM
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#61
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Target Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 8-March 02 From: Tlön, Orbis Tertius Member No.: 2,211 |
Arthur Brooke's poem The Tragical Historye of Romeus and Iuliet was published in 1562, and it was derived from a prose work by Pierre Boaistuau from 1559. Boaistuau's source is the Italian Mateo Bandello, who had adapted Luigi Da Porto's 1530 version of the story. The basic conflict of lovers from rival sides in a war goes back at least into Greek mythology with Troilus and Criseyde (Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida), but Da Porto is the one that named them Romeo and Giulietta and stuck them in Verona. Claiming "first" is a tricky business. |
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Sep 8 2003, 02:05 PM
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#62
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 214 Joined: 26-February 02 From: UK Member No.: 340 |
Hell, Brian Lumley's Wamphyri could only be immobilised by a stake through the heart, decapitation was needed to kill them (and that is before White Wolf). Too many weak links, or links vague enough that they could be coincidence (vampires having reflections - even if no one else had done that, the studio's could have thought that was a stupid power and left it out). There have been so many Vampire and Werewolf films that share those similarities to think that White Wolf has the right to sue over it. |
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Sep 8 2003, 02:06 PM
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#63
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
What the firk ding blast ever happened to "If I have seen farther than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants?"
I mean, take William Gibson. Everything he used comes from somewhere else, from Turing to Huxley to Phillip K. Dick, but it was his style that makes his books so good, moreso than any truly original idea in them. |
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Sep 8 2003, 03:57 PM
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#64
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 321 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Germany/Europe/Terra/Sol Member No.: 684 |
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Sep 8 2003, 05:14 PM
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#65
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Stockholm, Sweden Member No.: 161 |
Penny Arcade's take on it.
Edit: Dang. Didn't read to the end of the thread so I didn't see Sarge's post. Well, my post is better since it links straight to the comic. :D |
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Sep 8 2003, 07:35 PM
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#66
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 731 Joined: 25-March 02 From: Rye, New York Member No.: 2,470 |
Hey! I did say "at least." The story is a cliassic idea, or even classical, and probably goes back to "Thag the Cave kook" and "Urla the River kook" |
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Sep 8 2003, 10:21 PM
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#67
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
*shrug*
The first thing I did when I saw the trailer was roll my eyes, thinking "oh, another pretty-goth flick" The second thing I did was ask the person sitting next to me why "Vee's" were warring against "a fungus with a symbiotic relationship to algae." The third thing was, of course, to duck. |
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Sep 8 2003, 11:57 PM
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#68
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Target Group: Members Posts: 83 Joined: 26-March 03 Member No.: 4,336 |
Ms. collins being the only whitewolf writer whose work ive read, i certainly was surprised not to see her credited at the end of this film. I also thought that Selena seemed to be a carbon copy of the way Lucita has been depicted, but I think the points regarding the use of Abominations is the winner of this case
The vampire/werewolf crossbreed is a whitewolf invention, and they specifically termed it Abomination. for it to be then duplicated exactly in the movie makes me believe that whitewolf's case has alot more merit than people think. |
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Sep 9 2003, 12:08 AM
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#69
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Target Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 1-August 03 From: West Jordan, UT Member No.: 5,192 |
Having read throught the 64 page filing...I think Sony would be wise to settle this out of court. I have a feeling that White Wolf is going to be posting a very hefty profit for 2004. :D
All the best... John |
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Sep 9 2003, 03:23 AM
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#70
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 215 Joined: 26-February 02 From: In My Head Member No.: 2,122 |
Yeah, and I don't think that it's going to all be from book sales. Odd thing about White Wolf, one of their spin off companies, Swords and Sorcery, makes more d20 books than Wizards of the Coast. Ok, the reason for the lawsuit is not because of the general information presented, I.E. basically it's V:tM, and W:tA, but because it's about an old out of print fiction book put out by an individual, using the names of the White Wolf games, or one of them. |
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Sep 9 2003, 03:51 AM
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#71
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Target Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 84 |
Thank christ I'm not the only one who was wondering why they were scared of lychen. |
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Sep 9 2003, 04:04 AM
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#72
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Target Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 17-April 03 Member No.: 4,462 |
I'm not sure how comprehensively this was meant; whether some particular aspect of the crossbreed is a White Wolf invention or the entire idea is so. But I thought I'd throw in mention of a short story by R. Chetwynd-Hayes, titled "The Werewolf and the Vampire." In it, sure enough, a werewolf and vampire marry, and have a 'baby werevamp'. Unfortunately for the happy couple though, old Reverend Cole wised up to them and recruited the help of the parish boy, Willie, and his horror comics in figuring out how to deal with them. Even more unfortuntely for the reverend, mama, papa, and baby all three managed to take a chunk out of him and there was no telling what to term the man after that experience. :eek: This story was first published in 1975. I doubt, too, that it's the first instance of a vampire/werewolf crossbreed every put forth either. As has been mentioned multiple times in this thread, it's very difficult to pinpoint the origin of literay ideas. |
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Sep 9 2003, 05:46 AM
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#73
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,213 Joined: 10-March 02 From: Back from the abyss. Member No.: 2,316 |
If you do even a little research into the Occult type stuff, spcefically vampires. I found White Wolf lifted everything from folklore. I played White Wolf games well before WoD, and everything in the V:TM book seemed lifted from folk lore, hell the books are filled with song lyrics and book quotes. I have not found anything about "Abominations" in the folk lore, I haven't looked for it either.
A lot of the points in the compliant seem to have merit, until you see that almost everything White Wolf has on vampires and were wolves, and most of the other stuff, changlings, mummies, wriaths and mages, are completely based on lore that has been around for hundreds of years. I have a feeling Sony will settle, or buy out White Wolf :D And as for the "werewolves" in the commercials, the ones running on the walls, I thought were gargoyles or something, some sort of demons. I didn't thing werewolves. But to be honest, I did think the promo had a very V:TM feel when I seen it. But I think White Wolf should take what they can get and run away happy. |
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Sep 9 2003, 08:06 AM
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#74
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Moving Target Group: Validating Posts: 186 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Copenhagen, Denmark Member No.: 911 |
Heh.
Ann Rice didn't sue White Wolf, because White Wolf was/is a penniless RPG-company. In an interview with a danish RPG-magazine, Mark-Rein Hagen flat out admitted that the inspiration for V:tM was Ann Rice's books. He also said that he off course couldn't admit to that in the US. :wavey: Adhoc |
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Sep 9 2003, 09:09 AM
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#75
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 439 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .se Member No.: 625 |
Just bothered to download the trailer, looks like a kick ass action packed movie with lots of effects and a thin story. But I'm sure it will be worth a ticket anyway.
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