White Wolf and Nancy. A. Collins sue Sony Pictures

White Wolf and Nancy. A. Collins sue Sony Pictures

motorfirebox View Member Profile	Sep 9 2003, 10:56 AM Post #76
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,478	sammiel, there was an Image Comics crossover (Ballistic / Wetworks) that had a crossbred vampire/werewolf. their take on it was quite different from WW's. admittedly, Ballistic/Wetworks came after WoD--but "first" doesn't necessarily mean "only", when you're talking about inspiration. the thing that strikes me about the listed points of the lawsuit are that--as Gabe and Tycho so elegantly pointed out--most of 'em could be applied to Anne Rice's novels as well.

Hot Wheels

Sep 9 2003, 01:26 PM

Post #77

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QUOTE (Adhoc)

Heh.

Ann Rice didn't sue White Wolf, because White Wolf was/is a penniless RPG-company. In an interview with a danish RPG-magazine, Mark-Rein Hagen flat out admitted that the inspiration for V:tM was Ann Rice's books. He also said that he off course couldn't admit to that in the US.

:wavey:
Adhoc

If they win against Sony, they might not be penniless any longer

Ancient History View Member Profile	Sep 9 2003, 02:00 PM Post #78
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935	Mrs. Rice is still pissing blood from those last couple of books she wrote. I swear, once she did Memnoch the Devil, everything went straight to Hell. Sure, the vampire Armand was okay, but Tales of the Body Thief? Jaysis Abortus... Seriously though, Rice fucked herself out of any hope when she gave out the vampires' "origin" in QUeen of the Damned; and WW was very careful not to follow her books to the T (no glassy-nails, no tanning in sunlight for uber-vampires, no real pyrokinesis 'cept for the Tremere, and they call that Creo Ignem or the Lure of Flames).

Hot Wheels View Member Profile	Sep 9 2003, 02:11 PM Post #79
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 731 Joined: 25-March 02 From: Rye, New York Member No.: 2,470	Actually Queen of the Damned gave WW the break they needed. In that Rice says vampires came from demons inhabiting mortals in the days of egypt. WW goes back further saying that vampirism is the "Mark of Caine" that God put on the son of Adam, really getting back before egypt, and pushing it further to show how Vampires have manipulated world history (Carthage, 100 years war etc) while Rice's vamps are just content to sit back and observe and try to stay relevant.

Dashifen View Member Profile	Sep 9 2003, 02:14 PM Post #80
Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374	As long as it doesn't extend the release date, I'm happy ;) -- Dashifen --

Adam View Member Profile	Sep 9 2003, 02:15 PM Post #81
Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51	WW is hardly penniless; they've had one of the best-selling games for over 10 years now. Compared to Sony, they're small fry. Compared to most game companies, they're quite large.

Arcanum V

Sep 9 2003, 02:33 PM

Post #82

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QUOTE (Adam)

WW is hardly penniless; they've had one of the best-selling games for over 10 years now. Compared to Sony, they're small fry. Compared to most game companies, they're quite large.

Sssssh! Not so loud, Adam! We're trying to hold on to our "White Wolf is the edgy and k3wl and all counter-culture underdog that's being kept down by the Man that can't stand their edgy and k3wl exploration of the things the Man doesn't want us to know about" image. You'll make us all think that White Wolf's actually the Enemy, an Evil Corporation out to make money!

Hot Wheels View Member Profile	Sep 9 2003, 06:01 PM Post #83
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 731 Joined: 25-March 02 From: Rye, New York Member No.: 2,470	This "illusion" is interesting. I know and agree with why FASA and TSR and all the rest avoid cursing and explicit, graphic comments in their books, but WW goes out of it's way to f* and S* and f* and b** and all the rest, talking about Giovani and incestuous etc. I know they are giving it the "edge" but wonder why they felt they could/should do it when so many other game corps avoid that like the plague.

Glyph View Member Profile	Sep 9 2003, 06:44 PM Post #84
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449	They do it because they are like those pathetic 80's metal bands. They want to be the "cool stuff your mom doesn't want you to have". So - oooh! swearing! blasphemy! naughty bits! After all, these are the same pathetic, goth-geek losers who put up a fake fundie website bashing their new game in a peurile attempt to get some cheap heel heat for it (Look, kids! You can play demons! Your mom will really freak!). I don't mind mature themes or dark games, but I have never gotten into White Wolf at all. Maybe because I think controversy should be real, not contrived to make a game look "cool".

Adhoc

Sep 9 2003, 07:11 PM

Post #85

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QUOTE (Glyph)

They do it because they are like those pathetic 80's metal bands. They want to be the "cool stuff your mom doesn't want you to have".

Spinal Tap?

:wavey:
Adhoc

Adam

Sep 9 2003, 07:57 PM

Post #86

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QUOTE (Hot Wheels)

This "illusion" is interesting. I know and agree with why FASA and TSR and all the rest avoid cursing and explicit, graphic comments in their books, but WW goes out of it's way to f*** and S*** and f*** and b**** and all the rest, talking about Giovani and incestuous etc. I know they are giving it the "edge" but wonder why they felt they could/should do it when so many other game corps avoid that like the plague.

I would wager that White Wolf uses such language because it properly reflects the tone and nature of their games.

As for the Father Ravnos stuff - well, it worked. People bitch about game companies being stuck in their ways and not trying different marketing/exposure tactics, and then they bitch when they try new stuff. ;-)

The_Sarge View Member Profile	Sep 9 2003, 08:07 PM Post #87
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 321 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Germany/Europe/Terra/Sol Member No.: 684	Yeah, I get the same impression. They don't overdo swaring or blaspheming. They use it in IC talk, where it is appropiate. I like it. And, although I'm sligthly under pressure now, with getting my Mage stuff together, I /like/ the idea of ending a game-line. It's... Yeah, cool.

Siege View Member Profile	Sep 9 2003, 08:07 PM Post #88
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916	I think Motorfire has the nail under the hammer on this one. The whole idea of werewolves and vampires existing in the same fiction and disliking each other has a long tradition well before White Wolf developed an RPG on the premise. It would be like WizKids trying to sue someone for making a sword-and-sorcery flick like "Excalibur" or even "Lord of the Rings". Now, if Margaret Weis decided to sue a movie company because they were doing a film about a world overrun with dragons and they used steel for currency...that's a little more specific than "vampires and werewolves disliking each other." I am curious as to the "sixty points of similarity" they mention and just how unique they happen to be. -Siege

Adam View Member Profile	Sep 9 2003, 08:24 PM Post #89
Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51	Siege - those sixty points are in the PDF file I posted a link to a few days ago.

Hot Wheels View Member Profile	Sep 9 2003, 08:58 PM Post #90
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 731 Joined: 25-March 02 From: Rye, New York Member No.: 2,470	And most of us read. Some points are good, some are crap. But the plan in court is just overwhelm Sony. If it has to defend each point, even the bad ones it is a greater mass for them to respond to than just the good ones.

Glyph View Member Profile	Sep 10 2003, 02:47 AM Post #91
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449	That could possibly backfire, though. The Sony lawyers could hold a bunch of the frivolous ones up to ridicule, and the few "good" ones could get ignored in the face of all of the frivolous ones. Of course, this is far more likely to get settled out of court. Even if Sony is in the right, it might still be cheaper for them to settle. Adhoc: Great movie, great satire - and it hits right on target. That is what those bands were like (minus the "bizarre gardening accidents, of course). :D

last_of_the_grea... last_of_the_great_mikeys View Member Profile	Sep 10 2003, 03:34 AM Post #92
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,359 Joined: 25-June 02 From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada (go Canucks!) Member No.: 2,904	Heck, I remember a '90's episode of Tales From the Crypt which featued a vampire/werewolf rivalry. Now, as the son of a lawyer, I know what I am talking about when I say I don't have a clue about the legal ramifications and copyright issues relevant to this case or a likely outcome! I do suspect someone on the WW staff or family of one of the WW staff is a lawyer. :D

Hot Wheels View Member Profile	Sep 10 2003, 01:16 PM Post #93
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 731 Joined: 25-March 02 From: Rye, New York Member No.: 2,470	Have you ever read through a law suit? The masses of paperwork is stupifying. I've seen suits where someone is sueing the owner of a property we hold the mortgage on, something minor like, I kid you not, tripping on the sidewalk in from of the building, and the first 18 pages is defining who and what and where everything is. It's litterally that far in before you find out what happened that the suit is happening. I'd hate to think how thick this puppy is.

Miststlkr View Member Profile	Sep 10 2003, 01:55 PM Post #94
Target Group: Members Posts: 76 Joined: 26-February 02 From: South of Sanity Member No.: 1,148	I've never read through a lawsuit, but I work for a roofing company and I've read through the paperwork for foreclosures on a few of our customers' houses that we get notified about. It's the same way, they take half of the "book" worth of paper jus to make sure everyone knows exactly where the property is, what it's boundaries are, etc. And they can never say "Mr. X", they say "Mr. X, any spouse, descendant, business, contractor, unnamed heirs or other unknown or unnamed entities whom may have claim upon said property" every single time they would normally just say the owner's name.. it gets rather tedious. I bet if you could get something in legalese in a .doc file and do a search/replace and replace all that BS with plain english they would be half as long...

Hot Wheels View Member Profile	Sep 10 2003, 04:42 PM Post #95
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 731 Joined: 25-March 02 From: Rye, New York Member No.: 2,470	Bingo!

motorfirebox View Member Profile	Sep 10 2003, 09:03 PM Post #96
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,478	[url=http://thedarkcity.org/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=55&t=440&st=0]The Great Justin explains all![/url] edit: what the hell?

The_Sarge View Member Profile	Sep 10 2003, 09:12 PM Post #97
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 321 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Germany/Europe/Terra/Sol Member No.: 684	http://thedarkcity.org/forum/index.php?act...f=55&t=440&st=0 Perhaps the 'missing' "www." ? xtheenth edit: Belive me... I tried to make it work, too.

Arcanum V

Sep 11 2003, 06:40 PM

Post #98

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The White Wolf Update Press Release from Sept. 10.

QUOTE

Court Awards Expedited Injunction Hearing to
WHITE WOLF and NANCY A. COLLINS in "Underworld" Suit

Atlanta, GA, 10 September 2003–White Wolf, Inc. and Nancy A. Collins yesterday appeared in court yesterday with their attorneys in an effort to get legal relief from Sony Pictures', Screen Gems' and Lakeshore Entertainment's alleged copyright infringements in their upcoming film Underworld.

Judge J. Owen Forrester did not grant the requested temporary restraining order, citing a handful of mitigating circumstances, most notably the plaintiff's inability to post a bond in excess of ten million dollars. Judge Forrester, however, did call for an expedited discovery period (lasting 30 days) and enabled the plaintiffs to have a preliminary injunction hearing thereafter. Judge Forrester also outlined his policy on fairness in his courtroom and cautioned Sony Pictures against using "big business" delay tactics.

If the injunction is granted, defendants risk their ability to proliferate the Underworld brand in video, licenses and merchandising. "I believe our attorney presented a strong case yesterday," said Mike Tinney, President of White Wolf. "The Judge had done his homework, asked a lot of smart questions, and commented that plaintiffs appeared to have made a valid argument for copyright infringement. For a small company like White Wolf and an individual plaintiff like Ms. Collins, this acknowledgement is very heartening."

Please direct press inquiries to:

for White Wolf: R. Schaeffer, 404-292-1819 x200

for Nancy A. Collins: Pamela Koslyn, 310-271-1833

# # #

Since its entry into the roleplaying game market in 1991, White Wolf Publishing, Inc. has grown, maintaining an average market share of 26%. With collective book sales in excess of 5.5 million copies during this time, White Wolf is one of two undisputed worldwide publishing leaders for pen and paper roleplaying games. White Wolf properties have been licensed to television series, comic books, action figures, professional wrestlers, a myriad of merchandising, replica props and weapons, interactive media events, coin operated arcade games and, of course, video games. More information on White Wolf can be found at www.white-wolf.com .

Nancy A. Collins is the author of several novels and numerous short stories, and is perhaps best known for her popular character Sonja Blue, a vampire/vampire-hunter who most recently appeared in the novel Darkest Heart and the collection Dead Roses for a Blue Lady. A recipient of the Horror Writers Association's Bram Stoker Award, The British Fantasy Society's Icarus Award, and the Deathrealm Award, as well as a nominee for the Eisner, World Fantasy, and International Horror Guild Awards, Collins' works include Knuckles and Tales, Sunglasses After Dark and Avenue X.

So the movie's still opening on the 19th. Color me surprised.

SeekerJST View Member Profile	Sep 11 2003, 08:18 PM Post #99
Target Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,943	::badly crayons arcanum in.:: :P / ;)

The_Sarge View Member Profile	Sep 11 2003, 08:25 PM Post #100
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 321 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Germany/Europe/Terra/Sol Member No.: 684	That reminds me of the technocracy sourcebook. :D Somethings along the lines of: "Use #2 pencils. And if your ST tells you, to fill a dot, you fill it out clear and completely. This is an order." ggg

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