 Stupid Deaths, Those Wacky Players |
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 Nov 9 2005, 09:56 PM
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#276
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Bushido Cowgirl  Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490  |
Mentioned it in another thread.
One member offs a Tir Na Nog policeman while we were running in Celtic Double Cross. Not only he, but the entire team is (as per the warning we received from our Johnson) "...are hunted down, summarily tried and executed." And our characters pleaded with him not to do it... |
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Nov 9 2005, 11:27 PM
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#277
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Railroad, much? It's not like Shadowrunners don't routinely avoid manhunts and such. Gene therepy, plastic surgery, etcetera.
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Nov 10 2005, 04:20 AM
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#278
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
We were leaving after successfully recovering a cyberware prototype and extracting some pay data. Due to some complications I was forced to leave by another exit that was planned so my beat-up, rusted, multi-color compact with a rebuilt supercharged 302 was on the other side of the building.
Instead I exited next to the executive parking lot. Lined up all nice and neat were several expensive cars in named parking spots. He listed off the names and vehicles and I picked one I liked broke in, hotwired it and drove off. Never, worring about the rigger mods installed. In a few minutes I found out that the car belonged to the security rigger in the building we just left as he remoted the car, locked out the manual controls, locked the doors and proceeded to drive his car back. I radio my other team members and informed them of my predicament. As quickly as possible the other team members caught up. The rigger decides, "I'll shoot out the tires." The mage decides, "I'll Ball Lightning the control circuits." neither decides to tell anybody about their plans. Car veers into oncoming traffick. Several cars make successful rolls to avoid me but fail to avoid other stuff. The vehicle continues through a yard and into a nice brick building. Accellerating all the way. |
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Nov 10 2005, 04:28 AM
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#279
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 470 Joined: 2-January 05 From: Quebec Member No.: 6,924 |
The shaman on my team used ball lightning against a vehicle once. It did a whole lot more than fry the circuits, it virtually melted the damn thing and it was an MPUV!
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Nov 10 2005, 06:00 AM
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#280
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
I agree. That was just lame. |
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Nov 10 2005, 01:28 PM
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#281
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
Yeah, but they're not running in Tir Na Nog at the time. |
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Nov 10 2005, 01:53 PM
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#282
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Whoopty shit. It's got Shadows, just like everywhere else. I am a rabid elf-country fanboy, and I'd take a big dump behind the GM screen of anyone who ever just said "sorry, you're all hunted down, captured, and executed. New game," no matter what goddamned country we broke the law in. Tir Tairngire, Tir na nOg, anywhere. There's no rule that says "elf countries magically win," and there never should be. You role-play the hunt out, at the very least. Let 'em go down kicking and screaming, dodging hunters, spies, cops, feds, Paladins, etc, etc. See if they can take a few with 'em, see what calls they make to try and pull old strings to get the hunt called off, let 'em try to drop fake clues, let 'em try to sacrifice one another to escape, let 'em do whatever they can -- let them do something. Hell, would The Bourne Identity have been a good movie if, ten seconds in, the director just said "This is lame. Treadstone catches and kills him. Roll credits." I'd kill to get in a game like that -- outgunned, outnumbered, knowing you should die but trying to outsmart the enemy, dodge the net that's closing in? That's pure Shadowrun, man. That's what it's all about. I've got characters that are tailor made for just that sort of game (though they'll likely never get the chance to use those abilities in that way). The characters are supposed to be pro's. Pro's don't quit ('till the players decide they do). They go down after a dramatic chase, with their thumb stuck in someone's eye and a fat kid IRL tossing one last handfull of dice. |
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Nov 10 2005, 01:56 PM
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#283
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Rally now, share how you really feel...:D
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Nov 10 2005, 01:59 PM
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#284
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Well, it's retarded. No wonder so many people hate Tir Tairngire, Tir Na Nog, and everything that's even remotely to do with them. If GM's pull this sort of crap left and right (for the magical elf countries, but for some reason not any other nation-state in the world), people should fucking hate elves.
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Nov 10 2005, 02:09 PM
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#285
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
Before you blow a gasket, consider that all we know about the situation is that it happened in 'Celtic Double Cross.' That quote might've been there just to pare down a long, and to anyone who wasn't actually there, boring story about what happened. In that module, there might only be one part where you have a decent chance to just blow a cop away, and it just happens to be a really, really bad time to start shooting guys on the street. It doesn't matter if the place has Shadows or not if they're at the point in the module where it says, "this is where a Tir special forces convoy is moving through the city, and if the players follow it, they can get a good idea of what they'll be facing if they try and infiltrate location Z the next day," and the sammie goes, "Oh! Cop! Bang! Bang!" I guess congratulations on feeling so strongly about this (is there anyone out there who goes, Railroading? Oh baby yes please!), but I'd have to ask what's wrong with having the whole story before you start shitting all over everything? |
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Nov 10 2005, 03:16 PM
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#286
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
I think people hate the elves because running, illegally, in the elf nations is so damned hard without GM fiat or some massive connections and so much cash that it's not worth it for most runner teams. Of course, if the team left any ritual samples, astral signatures or anything that would allow a wiz to get a lock, it would be a very short chase. Evading mundane security is hard, but not impossible - outwitting mages can be bloody near impossible. -Siege |
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Nov 10 2005, 06:19 PM
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#287
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
From the sounds of things -- maybe I'm just taking his post too literally -- the GM literally just said "you're arrested and executed," once they killed the cop. It also looked like, from Sandoval's post, it was was a-okay for this sort of thing to happen, because it was in Tir na Nog.
And, well, if that's what happened, and if that's the logic behind it being an allright move on the GM's part, I firmly stand by my above half-lucid end-of-a-shift 9:00 rant. |
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Nov 10 2005, 07:31 PM
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#288
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Amen. In SR3 terms, as a player in our group puts it "As long as he's got the Hand of God or a single point of Karma Pool left my PC doesn't quit."
Oddly, yes. They might instead of using the word railroading call it some other bullshit name like GM narrative style, but yes there are definately GMs that do that and think it's the cat's ass because they get to wetdream up the whole story beforehand and then inflict it on an audience that was likely duped into believing they'd have some sort of influence on the outcome. Some people even like, or at least don't mind, 'playing' in such games. (EDIT: Particularly if they consider the GM's stories entertaining instead of viewing them as a rambling mess of the worst kind of fan-wank spawned from a marginally literate mind.) Me, i have my passive narrative quota filled watching movies or reading a book and look for something different in an RPG. But not everyone. It is also possible that the group Kyoto Kid was in was a pack of QUITTERS! ;) They just didn't want to play out being hunted down like dogs by the uber (still no balls!) elf police. P.S. BTW i did a search for the other thread Kyoto Kid mentioned. The one i found didn't have any more details as to whether or not the GM really just summed up the whole chase down in a 1/2 sentence. :( It did however confirm what i gathered from Kyoto Kid's post in this thread. He was a player, not the GM. |
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Nov 10 2005, 07:53 PM
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#289
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Remember, many kids these days are the byproducts of the Final Fantasy and other 'rpg' related console/computer games. Railroading/narrative style? yeah.
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Nov 10 2005, 09:42 PM
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#290
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
Actually, my namesake character Kyoto Kid really Really hates elves. She was born of elven parents and raised in the TT but was unfortunate to be the human of twin sisters (this was back in SR1). It's one thing being an outcast in society, it is another when it is within your family. At the age of 13 she managed to stow away on a transport to Seattle when she finally decided enough was enough. and that is where her SINless career began. Hence the second part of her motto below: |
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Nov 10 2005, 10:00 PM
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#291
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
Basically, a lot of it was the GM who in other game systems tends to lean towards the "Killer" technique (as if this module wasn't tough enough). needless to say, I and several others do not play in this person's scenarios any more. We were not even allowed our Hand OF God. I will say this though, my character (an earlier incarnation of the decker Diamond IC) went down swinging after things went south to the point of hopelessness. Even with her skill, deck & programmes, she still somehow failed to get us passage out of the country before they caught up with us. Must have been some really killer Trace IC I guess. BTW her new Incarnation almost hates elves as bad as the aforementioned Kyoto Kid character. |
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Nov 10 2005, 10:15 PM
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#292
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
In that case, I rescind my previous leniency against the GM's actions. That was a really toolish thing to do, especially since the other players tried to get him to stop. I probably would've gone really hard on the shooter, for being dumb, but not gone out of my way to heap punishment on the 'innocent' players.
I'm also going to have to strongly disagree with Blakkie's take on railroading. One of the prime identifiers of railroading is that it's no fun. Therefore, if the players are having fun, it's not railroading, instead of deciding, 'it's railroading, and the fact that you guys are enjoying it is just indicitive that you're too dense to realize that you're being led around by the nose." |
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Nov 10 2005, 10:16 PM
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#293
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Maybe it was a magical, flower-powered Trace program? Run on a satanic deck by some bizzarely old Elf? :love:
Sorry to hear, that just isn't right. Even if the guy that shot the officer was a total dumbass for doing so. Something like not being allowed a Hand of God would by itself cause me to cast doubts about a lot of other 'bad luck' that lead up to needing to use it. :( |
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Nov 10 2005, 10:28 PM
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#294
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
*shrug* You can have three different players in a game experience the same thing. One likes it, one is unaware, and the third doesn't like it. Would the player that likes it refer to it literally as "railroading"? Maybe, maybe not, depending what connotations that brings to her. But my point is that it's still railroading, by any other name. P.S. It sure didn't sound like Kyoto Kid wanted more of the same, although at least it wasn't just a 1/2 sentence that completely ended it. Even if everything past that point could have been a sham rigged by the GM who had set in their mind to terminate the team no matter what they managed to do. EDIT: It sounds like this might also have been a variation on the railroad that i'd refer to as the deathtrap. It's like the railroad in that there is one path, but the path isn't something the player is likely to think of a straight-forward [obvious]. It is a puzzle created by the GM who sees and allows only one possible solution that requires very specific actions. Instead of rails to hold you in place on the path the PC just simply comes to a quick and horrible end if they happen to, mistakenly or not, deviate in the slightest from the GM prescribed path. |
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Nov 10 2005, 10:39 PM
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#295
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
The prime identifier of railroading is that the players have no real choices in that they cannot deviate from the given plot no matter what they do. That doesn't mean that it isn't fun. Final Fantasy X is fun, but its plot certainly moves on rails. |
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Nov 11 2005, 12:17 AM
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#296
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 775 Joined: 31-March 05 From: florida Member No.: 7,273 |
yeah, my GM hates when we do something that completely blows his plans to hades, there was this one time, (and no it wasnt a stupid PC death but a stupid NPC death), our street sam and one of the phys adepts in the group went to meet the johnson to give her an update, well they were told to leave all there weapons with the weapons check, but the street sam kept the claymore mine in his fanny pack, once the johnson got there he armed and started to place the claymore with a radio detonator in one corner of the room but was spotted, he was told to turn it over to the weapons check as well so he did with it still armed and goes back to the table. next thing he knows the mafia goons start storming into the bar and the street sam calmly reaches down and hits the radio detonator switch on his keychain.....sets off the entire weapons storage and takes out the goons and half the bar....needless to say they were never allowed back into the bar, but the johnson was very impressed |
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Nov 11 2005, 12:19 AM
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#297
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Claymore in a fanny pack.
-Siege |
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Nov 11 2005, 12:21 AM
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#298
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
A gay suicide bomber belt. Cute.
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Nov 11 2005, 12:22 AM
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#299
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 775 Joined: 31-March 05 From: florida Member No.: 7,273 |
they will fit, i know from personal experience...(just finished a tour in the marines)
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Nov 11 2005, 12:23 AM
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#300
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Not suicide, you just point the claymore away drom your butt, bend over toward your enemies, and detonate it. If you're a troll you can stage down the explosive damage and the ball bearings wll slaughter your foes. |
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