Stupid Deaths, Those Wacky Players Options

[Arethusa]

I would have to agree here. However, given that the SR system is not very good at handling precision (in fact, it is precisely awful at it), you need to be careful of making this sort of thing unreasonably difficult. It's a judgement call based on the character's skill or lack thereof as to whether or not you think he might have trouble with stalling in the middle of combat, and from there, possibly making a reasonable (stress reasonable) test. This sort of thing absolutely needs to be flexible to work around the many problems with the SR system; it's just not geared for handling little stuff like this, and you can really go overboard with it if you're not careful.

[Sandoval Smith]

I've never even had a vehicle that needed a key to start in Shadowrun. They've all either been magnetic card, or biometric activated. If it was a system with autonav, all my character has to do is sit down, and tell it where it's going, and it'll take care of everything itself.

Starting the bike should not have required a check (as supported in the rules). Heck, even driving away could have been done without a check, if it had been done calmly. When the motorcycle started taking shots, then the checks would've started, or if he peeled out at maximum acceleration.

[Foreigner]

[DocMortand]

[Foreigner]

DocMortand:

What happened was that Sahandrian (Elf Face/Decker), Phaeton (Human rigger/streetsam/biker), Ceres (SURGEd Night One Cat Shaman), and I (The Foreigner, Human Magician's Way Adept, and follower of the Invisible Way--the "newbie") had been hired by another 'runner, "Glasswalker" ("Walker" for short) to do an extraction on NovaTech's Seattle facility--Walker had been contacted by someone who wanted to get out, and the corp was willing to kill the individual in question in order to keep the edge she had provided--the extractee (is that a word? :P ) was an elderly woman, but we didn't find that out until we'd actually met her. Walker's intel was faulty, and had identified the target as a young man.

Anyway, Phaeton was on his way, after stopping off at his apartment to pick up his gear. Sahandrian was providing information and overwatch. Meanwhile, Ceres, Walker and I managed, after a few tense moments (mostly stumbling around in the dark :) ; I think I tripped over a Devil Rat or something :P; then Ceres and I had the misfortune to--almost literally-- stumble over a dead Metahuman), to cross to the building in question via a Levitate spell (courtesy of Ceres), and enter via the fire escape.

By this time, Phaeton has arrived, and he sees something (someone?) suspicious. He decides to follow whoever/whatever it is. Walker informs him via headphone that we're ready to leave. (This was after I panicked and nearly shot our mark; what can I say? :P It makes me nervous when sadistic GMs--are you reading this, Sahandrian?--have NPCs sneak up on me out of the blue and start talking.)

Walker's message gives Phaeton an idea--provide a distraction. So he blows the front door off of its hinges with an HE Minigrenade from his Ares Alpha. Unfortunately, this draws the attention of the guy he was tailing--a heavily cybered Ork, street name "Phobos", from a resident-to-our-campaign group of mercenaries called the "Devilkin". After a protracted gunfight, Phaeton manages to put Phobos out of commission, but is seriously wounded in the process--he was 1 Damage Box from bleeding to death, although his cyberware (read "Pain Editor") kept him conscious.

At this point, Phobos's backup arrives--an even-more-menacing cybered Troll, street name "Deimos". Deimos lifts Phaeton off the floor with one hand around his neck, basically telling Phaeton not to even *TRY* killing him, because nothing in Phaeton's (rather considerable) arsenal is adequate to the task, and turns to help his fallen teammate. Phaeton takes his advice, and manages to get outside and hide behind a Dumpster.

Meanwhile, Walker, Ceres, and I have managed to get away, with Ceres having used a fire-related spell to incinerate everything in the extractee's files that we couldn't bring with us. Just as we're about to part company with Walker, Ceres smells blood, and calls Phaeton on her cell phone. We track him to a side alleyway, call DocWagon and, between her Healing spells and my Rating 6 Medkit, manage to stabilize him long enough for them to transport him to the nearest clinic.

At which point Walker gives us a :nuyen: 20,000 Credstick, and he and the mark drive away in a limo which mysteriously appeared just as we were leaving the building. ;)

(Ever try to split :nuyen: 20,000 three ways? It isn't easy.)

Phaeton took :nuyen: 10,000, mostly for medical bills; Ceres got :nuyen: 6,000, and I got :nuyen: 4,000.

-- Foreigner

[Solstice]

3rd try: It specifically states that no check is needed for doing something normal with a vehicle. Getting on and starting, even getting going from a stop sure seems to fit the "normal" definition.

[Tanka]

Let's simplify this:

Is there a test to start a vehicle? No.
Was the character in combat? Yes.
Should there have been an Acceleration test? Absolutely not.

He was not pushing his bike to the limits. He was not doing anything crazy like, say, jumping six buildings and landing perfectly. He was not doing 90 in six-lane traffic that is, at most, going 60, doding and weaving between cars and gaps. He was not in a maddening car chase.

What he was doing was accelerating to get the fuck out of there.

Ever played a game called "Bigger or Better?" There you are, trying to do things as fast as possible and get back to an appointed area before anyone else. So, naturally, you're speeding and shaving off time whenever possible (like everybody jumping in a car, starting it before you hit the seat, and accelerating before anybody else is 100% in the car). It doesn't take a check to do that, it takes good timing and the ability to not fuck things up (id est make sure people are most of the way in and have a good grip on something before flooring it).

Most people with licenses have Car (or whatever vehicle) 1. Give them several years of experience (or just make them good right off the bat like some people) and they have Car 2. If they've narrowly avoided lots and lots of accidents and can rather easily navigate the aforementioned six-lane highway doing the aforementioned speed, then they probably have Car 3. Anything above is, generally, for stunt drivers and the like.

Just because you can't do something doesn't mean nobody else can.

[Ved'ma]

[Solstice]

[Sandoval Smith]

As I said before, none of the vehicles I've used in Shadowrun have required keys. I have a magnetic card on my person (if not a rigger) that works both the door and the igntion by proximity (okay, so I guess it's like a key). If it's a bike, I twist the throttle, if it's a car, I put my hands on the steering wheel, a foot on the peddle, and go. Now, if one of those people shooting at me actually hits, either the character, or the vehicle, then some dice should roll. I would simply say, 'hell no' to making a starting test because its arbitrary, and can really smack of a GM jerking the player around.

[Fortune]

I'm with you all the way on that one. Sprawl Survival Guide pretty much backs up that view on the tech available in the way of proximity capabilities and such.

[Wounded Ronin]

I'll just say that I'll bet it can be hard to do *very* simple things if people are shooting at you.

[Sandoval Smith]

Right, but most of the complications I can think of are already covered in the rules. I think what is rubbing most people the wrong way is suddenly popping an extra test on a player. If any of those shots are hitting, then there is a good chance that driving and crash tests might follow anyway. If the player doesn't do anything more complicated than go in a straight line at a controlable speed, I don't see the need to saddle them with another one.

[Solstice]

[Sandoval Smith]

After playing the Arc shutdown with a GM who was rather insecure in his role, and occasionly made himself feel better with random, unavoidable mono whip decapitations of PCs (hey, it's the Arc. It's full of deathtraps, and people to die in them. Make a new character. He'll be in the next zombie room the PCs find), I'm a little touchy about things that could come across as GMs jerking around players.

Getting on a bike and driving away, even under fire, no problem, no extra tests. Peeling out of there, popping a wheelie and burning rubber, that takes a drive test, and I believe there is a modifier for being in combat.

[Fortune]

Any threat that the gunfire imposed would be have been resolved with the Dodge tests or Body tests involved.

[hobgoblin]

seems people more or less agree that there should be a test, what we cant agree on is what test...

[Sahandrian]

Close, but you mixed a few things up.

[Edward]

A check would be needed for the unusually high acceleration he will want. Remember acceleration during a combat turn is base acceleration 8 successes on driving test target handling.

Trying to do this opens up the possibility of no successes or a rule of 1 situation, if your happy with base acceleration then no need to roll.

Edward

[Foreigner]

Sahandrian:

Sorry. :(

I *TOLD* you that my memory wasn't very good.... ;)

--Foreigner

[Canid13]

I'd probably not have asked for a Bike test, since my mate's car starts at the push of a button after automatically unlocking the doors for him - SR definately states in various places these things only get more accurate.

What I'd possibly have called for, and I'm still making up my mind as to whether I'd have bothered, is a Quickness or Reaction test to see if the character can do all those things together in the right order. But mostly I'm thinking I wouldn't have bothered.

As a matter of note, I have known people for whom starting vehicles under fire is a normal day at the office and they'd just not be seen dead (okay, that's all they'd be) on a bike in a combat situation. But for them, they wouldn't even need to test for peeling away with the pedal to the floor and in full control.

When I run games, I keep in mind the one rule I've used over and above the SR rules at times - can the Human body/mind do this and if so how much, if any, training/experience would it take. I even take this into account when playing.

[Spook]

We were playing a one-shot "break into the compond and steal something" game and one of the PCs playing a mage spotted the automated HVARs mounted at the corners of the building.

So, he thought he'd be clever and use improved invisibility with levitate to float up to the guns and disable them. "It works on video cameras and other electronics," he said, "I'll be fine."

Lo and behold, the gun managed to track him and fire a decent amount of lead through his body, which quickly become visible, fell from the air and bounced on the ground.

As it turns out, the HVARs were equipped with ultrasound sensors (which the GM didn't count as visual, causing another invisibility argument.)

Oops.

[Mercer]

From a game, years and years ago:

GM: As you peer down the alley, a metal orb comes bouncing out of the darkness at you.

Player: I pick it up and read it.

GM: Huh?

Player: I pick it up amd read it. Does it have anything written on it?

GM: Yeah.

Player: What's it say?

GM: Uh, it says, "U.C.A.S. Ordinance"

Then the grenade exploded.

[Crusher Bob]

The M67 grenade that the US currently uses says:

Grenade, Hand, Frag, Delay, M67
Comp B, {Lot Number?}

The M18 smoke grenade says:

M18
Smoke
{Color}
{Lot Number?}

The Mk3A2 Grenade says:

Grenade Hand
Offensive MK3A2
TNT
{Lot Number}

... and now, back to your regularly scheduled program.

[Mercer]

Dissecting ajoke is like dissecting a frog. It isn't amusing and the frog is dead.