House Rules For Melee Combats, What have you done? Options

[booklord]

Booklord's House Rules for Melee Combat

I've GM'd a while now. And I've always found that some parts of Shadowrun simply don't work as well as I'd like. In particular is melee combat. Some of these house rules were decided on my own. Some like the "ignoring an opponent" rule came up during the game when a player attempted something the rules didn't really allow, but made sense.

TARGET MODIFIERS

Reach always raises the target number of the character with the lower reach. It
NEVER lowers the target number of the character with the higher reach.

Having friends in melee does not lower your target number. Your opponent having friends in melee combat does raise your target number.

Character's do not lower there target numbers for having a superior position of if the enemy is prone. Instead their opponent raises their target numbers for Inferior Position or Being Prone.

EXPLANATION
I just don't think target numbers for melee combat should fall below 4 ever. In particular the double effect of Friends in Melee is just too unbalancing. Sometimes I wonder if the writers of Shadowrun ever realize the effects of target modifiers run amok.

USING TWO CYBER SPURS OR RAZORS AT ONCE

Rules for using two weapons at once follow the rules found in Cannon Companion not those in the Shadowrun book ( which raise the power level of the attack ). Only one change. Because of the greater ease in using two cyber-implant weapons as opposed to two swords, the skills cyber-implant weaponry and off-hand cyber-implant weaponry are considered linked. ( Meaning characters without off-hand cyber-implant weaponry can default to the cyber-implant weaponry skill (+2 Modifier) rather then their quickness(+4 Modifier).

COUNTER ATTACKING

Each combat turn takes only a few seconds. So to anyone watching it always looks like the defender is counter-attacking. In game terms the effects are that the defender can NEVER hit the attacker during a melee attack he can only defend ( ala Full defense) Yes, it makes using mono-whips more dangerous, but for some reason that doesn't bother me.

The counter-strike ability of adepts is altered as follows. To use the extra-counter attack dice while attacking in an initiative pass the opponent must either have attacked first or the adept must delay his attack in order to let the opponent attack first. Then the adept may "counter-strike" using the extra dice his power provides.

EXPLANATION
It bugs me that characters with low initiative fighting a high initiative character could get a ridiculous number of attacks in a single turn. It also bugs me when that under the standard rules melee combat almost always ends in after a few attacks.


IGNORING AN OPPONENT

There are instances where a character may want to ignore an opponent. For example an armored troll surrounded by 4 human gangers with baseball bats may choose to ignore 3 of his opponents and concentrate his attack on the 4th. The advantage is that the troll gets to ignore the Opponent has friends in melee target modifier. The disadvantage is that the troll cannot use melee skill dice to defend himself from the ignored gangers' attacks. ( only combat pool dice )

This can also be used when running past someone without attacking him. For example a magician with a bodyguard standing in front of him. The magician absolutely has to be taken out now so the character ignores the bodyguard and runs past him. The bodyguard gets a free interception attack and the character can't use melee skill dice to defend himself. However if the character isn't knocked down or unconscious he'll be able get past the bodyguard regardless of the bodyguard's successes and perform a charging attack on the magician.

WEAPON MANUEVERS

This is more of a different reading of the manuevers then others have had. When I first read the rules on combining martial arts manuevers with weapons, I read it like ---> If a character has three manuevers then takes the "weapon" manuever then he may perform any of the previously learned manuevers with that weapon type. Others use a (single manuever-single weapon) manuever system which in retrospect I believe is probably correct. However I liked the way I'm doing it now so.....(exercise GM powers) ..... that's the way it works.

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Any comments? snide remarks? criticisms? ideas? I'm curious what you think.

[Turtle]

[I am Jin]

I don't see what the deal is everyone has with counterattack. Sure it's annoying, but it makes perfectly good sense. It's why the guy in the wheel-chair who happens to be a blackbelt could still kick your ass, and why the old man meditating in the garden might be able to take you down if you attack him. I've always looked at attacking as engaging in melee, which implies a complex series of actions and maneuvers on both sides of the battle, and the person who is better skilled should and would come out as the better of the two. Honestly I don't think they should ave called it "counter-attack" because it gives people the wrong idea. They should have jsut worded it that player 1 engages in melee with player 2, and the one with the best rolls wins that engagement.

I will however agree with you that being much faster should give you some sort of advantage in that confrontation, in fact I would go so far as to call that advantage "reach" and possibly gve a point or maybe even two to someone who is really, really fast versus someone who is slow. I think this would make sense in situations such as cyberninja versus ganger troll. The troll has long arms, but the ninja is much faster than the troll, and as such the two modifiers cancel each other out. Should be an interesting fight.

[booklord]

[GunnerJ]

One thing I did was too make it so that ties do not go to the attacker in melee combat. I mean, why can't there just be a "draw" where niether oponent is able to hit the other? Anyone who's done any fencing (especially epee, but definately NOT sabre) knows that it is the rule, not the exception, for there to be multiple-minute-long stretches of time where both combatants are hitting each others' weapons, but unable to get past any of each other's defenses.

[Fortune]

For counterattacking, I use a house rule whereby the defender can only counterattack if he has actions left in the turn. Otherwise he has to use full defence. This seems to give the higher-initiative guys enough of an advantage.

[Catsnightmare]

From what I can see on a players perspective, some of the rules we use. Ties are ties, you don't do any damage to each other. We've never had an issue with counterattack as presented in the book, works just fine for us.
The only issue that we've had come up is melee vs firearms combat.

[Shockwave_IIc]

I brought this up a while back.

The guy with speed (18+4d6 Ini, Skill 4) should at least stand a chance vs 86 year old Mr Wo (3+1d6 Ini, Skill 12).

But thats all i'm saying cos i was shouted down. :grinbig: :(

[Talondel]

I house-rule it so that Defenders in a melee can counterattack if they take a +1 to their TN while doing so. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of dodge-and-parrying. This still puts the advantage squarely on the attacker, but it means that Bruce Fucking Lee will still mess you up good if you swing at him.

The few times I've used it (it's been a while since I GMed anything), the players have all been fine with it. The really hardcore melee Adept guy still kicked plenty of ass, and it cut down on the "I'm scared to hit him!" reflex that can swiftly build up in Shadowrun for characters with a skill of "only" 4-5.

[BitBasher]

Virtual Dogma's (my) Melee combat

This needs to be updater with some things we smoothed over, and levels of things that were adjusted, but it's primarily intact.

We feel it works FAR better than the pointless and stupid techniques listed in the book, while keeping the abstractness of SR's other combat intact. Essentially it fits better with the game world.

[Sepherim]

I just made one quick rule, to add some variety to the combat. It's partially based in the augmentats in Leyend of the Five Rings. It'd be something like:
If you rise your TN in 1, you rise your power in 1 (from 4S, to 5S, for example).
If you rise your TN in 3, you rise your code in 1 (from 4S to 4D, for example.
It's easy, quick, and adds a little spice to melee combat.

[DigitalMage]

[booklord]

[DigitalMage]

The possibility of a counter attack prevents characters who would in reality be too damn scared to try to attack an opponent due to him being significantly less skilled, from making an attack.

Without the possibility of a counterattack you may get the following situation:

Adam has Unarmed Combat 2 and 4 Combat Pool, he is facing an opponent Blaze who has Edged Weapons 6, Improved Edged Weapons 6, Combat Pool 8 and wielding a katana.

Adam's player thinks "Heck, I may as well make an attack as I know I won't get hurt, there is nothing else I can do (I can't even run away due to Blaze blocking the only way out), and if by some fluke I manage to hit, well then great!"

In reality, even if my only way out of a situation was past a katana wielding maniac, I would still be reluctant to attack him unless he is severely distracted (i.e. has just acted). The possibility of a counter attack, gives a reason for that reluctance to be transfered into the game.

[booklord]

[Fortune]

[DigitalMage]

[booklord]

[DigitalMage]

[Dhurgan]

Why not simply restrict the number of times a person can couterattack per round? Something like QCK/2 or QCK/3, so even a beefed up PhysAd with QCK 10 would be able to counter at most 3-5 times in one round.

Alternately, increase the TN by 1-2 for each additional counterstrike after the first? This would give some edge to the faster character (by wearing the defender down).

[booklord]