 Master Shake For Shadowrun Product Line Developer, The Future Of Shadowrun |
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 Mar 11 2005, 07:48 PM
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#126
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The King In Yellow  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121  |
No. People who have been with the game for quite some time (also known as 'hard-core fans') lose big time as the system is adapted to whatever rules or even world structure those aspired new players would desire (as guessed by management, sinde marketing isn't even close to knowing as much about customers as to make accurate prognosis on customer behavior, especially in a fringe clientele such as P&P RP systems). It is far more likely that, in the end, more long-term fans would let go of Shadowrun (and not buy their books any more) than new players would be attracted away from other systems. And since these players are, at best, only partially intereted in Shadowrun, they wouldn't be as active buyers as the hardcore fans were. Bottom line: not a very viable idea.
Ex-fucking-cuse me? Video games are to replace books? Are you for real? I kind of having a hard time that *playing* Webster's will get me a word explained in a better way, or that *playing* Atkins' Biochemistry will teach me the Krebs cycle, glycolysis/glyconeogenesis or any other pathway more efficiently than a book. Also, I have a VERY hard time imagining Bible - the game (or it's sequel Bible II - Return of the Messiah). Nor can I imagine any serious SciFi or any story telling, really, being consumed oprimarily in video games. The medium may change, yes. Paper hasn't been the first medium where writing was presented on, nor is it the be-all end-all. It will, in time, be replaced. The form, however, of the novel, the textbook, and the poem, will remain. they haven't changed much since they were first conceived, and will stay with humanity for as long as complex thoughts and stories are to be told. Maybe new styles will grow, and maybe the length of the text will vary, but it will NEVER be replaced by *video games*. This is a technophile's illusion, much like how some scifi authors in the 80s believed video lessons would replace books. So? what happened? We have 2005 now, and I still have five 2 meter * 80 cm shelves containing books of all kinds in my place - and I know people who have far more. And unless video games can ovver true virtual worlds - and this is a looong way off, mind you - there will be P&P games. It is a bit early for SR's devs to worry about Matrix-like technology, isn't it? As for your comments on how shadowrun needs to find "back" to it's dystopian, Syndicate Wars-esque roots ... well, I guess you're not too familiar with the world after all for saying this. Shadowrun isn't "high" cyberpunk in any way. I always, for that matter, liked Shadowrun over Cybergeneration (and SW-esque worlds) because it took a more realistic approach. That is it's roots, and that is it's soul. Not "high" cyberpunk with dragons and mojo thrown in. And what about all this blowing things up you mention? I personally like my shadowrun more sneaky, stealthy, and only one shootout in a session, not a constant shoot'n'slay killfest. Not only do I think combat is slow in SR (or any other RP system, when compated to the real thing at least), but it also tends to be really boring if all your characters ever do is walk around and gun down stuff. I mean, come on, if I wanted that, then I would play a video game (like Killzone or Halo 2, two very decent shooters). If I felt like playing with people, I'd take that game online. No need to get together with my gaming group, dig out all the books, and start rolling dice. P&P RPing needs to offer something better than such video games. Like storytelling, cooperatively, in a group. Someone once said that roleplaying is half impürovised theater, half cooperative story writing, sith the occasional burst of gambling thrown in. That perfectly sums it up. Oh, and don't chicken out, respond! You started this post fully well knowing what kind of responses you'd get. Show you have some balls and stand up for what you wrote! |
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Mar 11 2005, 07:57 PM
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#127
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Holy motherfucking thread resurrection, Batman.
Why the hell did you do this? What possessed you to think it was good idea? |
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Mar 11 2005, 07:58 PM
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#128
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
At least he put forth a passable arguement.
Now lets let this die. |
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Mar 11 2005, 08:31 PM
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#129
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 18-August 03 Member No.: 5,513 |
Frylock needs to deliver a serioius ass-whooping...
I like the game rules as they are, no d20 please! |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Mar 11 2005, 08:38 PM
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#130
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Guests |
I found a new sig quote. |
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Mar 11 2005, 09:11 PM
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#131
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
If you look at the first posts in this thread, you can virtually see how tired everyone got. There´s just no end to the amount of bashing Master Shake deserves for this, so no one could bring themselves to even start, at first.
I guess hermit just needed to releive some of his aggressions for some reason? Must be a satisfying target, if nothing else. :) |
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Mar 11 2005, 09:22 PM
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#132
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Hehe, yeah ... particularily that "videogames will replace books" thing ticked me off. I mean, really. I am old enough to remember the craze about Video. Sheesh. Every time a new medium shows up, everyone wants to bury the book. Remember e-books? Any of you have one? And we're internet junkies, if anyone, we ought to only use e-books by now. :P
Just something that hadn't been adressed before. Yes, I read through the entire thing. Also, yay, I be quoted! :biggrin: :grinbig: :wobble: :rollin: :spin: |
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Mar 11 2005, 09:31 PM
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#133
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: 6-February 05 Member No.: 7,059 |
wow, posting really late on this one, but, yeah, let's not make Shadowrun d20. I like not having to be pigeon-holed into a character class. And that look on a player's face when they hear those 15-20+ dice in your hands rattle around just before you drop them on the table is priceless.
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Mar 11 2005, 09:45 PM
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#134
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
hermit: :D :D Man. That book thing is hilarious to be sure. Just as mindless as the moral panic that arises with every new medium or art form. The worst part is how sure the people expressing these thoughts are of their truth.
Besides, book sales have been increasing steadily the last few years at least (read it on the internet, but still). |
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Mar 11 2005, 09:54 PM
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#135
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Exactly my point ... with Amazon (curious, eh? One of the best known, internet-based firms - one fo the few who survived the bubble - deals mainly in books, a medium that the Internet supposedly made obsolete ...), books are far more accessible, adn with the internet being able to gather information about books, potential readers learn of books that might interest them far more efficiently than before the internet. Hell, if it wasn't for the internet, I would never have known a couple of my favourite authors even existed!
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Mar 11 2005, 09:59 PM
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#136
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Ermm... I use e-books.... I read them at least three times a week during board meetings, usually more often. I'm currently half way through Algernon Blackwood's The Garden of Survival. Is that bad? |
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Mar 11 2005, 10:03 PM
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#137
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Why am I so reminded of that old song back in the 80's? 'Video killed the Radio Star...' *starts humming to the fragging tune* :P |
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Mar 11 2005, 10:04 PM
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#138
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
I buy Shadowrun pdf´s. And I occationally listen to audio books. Litterature has found new media lately. That´s a fact. But their still books, right?
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Mar 11 2005, 10:29 PM
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#139
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
No, I just haven't met anyone who used e-books before!
They sell SR PDFs? What books do they sell? This WOULD be handy for sourcebooks ... are SR PDFs less expensive than books? And where can I get them?
Yay! Hey, I loved that song back then ... I even like it now! *puts in 80s compilation CD* |
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Mar 11 2005, 10:32 PM
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#140
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
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Mar 11 2005, 11:06 PM
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#141
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
Yeah, video totally killed the radio star. Thats why theres so many channels that play music videos all the time, and radio is a barren and useless medium.
I hate MTV. Its a joke. |
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Mar 11 2005, 11:17 PM
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#142
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Indeed. And there's nothing like watching Video Casettes while driving to work. :P
Or, for that matter watching a Video while you read a damn book. Because, guess what, I need music whenever I am reading something, so I need *two* obsolete media at the same time! Man, I feel so fossil ... |
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Mar 11 2005, 11:31 PM
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#143
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Portable recorded media killed the radio star.
~J |
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Mar 11 2005, 11:33 PM
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#144
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
Thats a relatively accurate assessment.
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Mar 11 2005, 11:28 PM
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#145
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
MTV plays music videos? I lack sufficient command of the English language to articulate how much I hate MTV. |
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Mar 11 2005, 11:41 PM
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#146
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
Damn straight.
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Mar 11 2005, 11:43 PM
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#147
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Whenever I zap into MTV, they either show me some people souping up cars, or some suburbian kids being tortured, or soem stupid "reality" TV shit ... yeah, MTV shows music videos, all right.Even if they do, it tends to be ... wel, not what I consider music.
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Mar 11 2005, 11:54 PM
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#148
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
Yeah, I remember back in like, '94 when they showed mostly videos. Now they only show 'em really late at night or early in the morning, and when they do, they, as you mentioned, suck ass. I can't believe artists even make music videos anymore. The concept wasn't really that great to begin with.
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Mar 11 2005, 11:57 PM
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#149
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Well, there are some real gems among all those mediocre to downright shitty videos, I gotta give them that. Granted, most music videos these days consist mainly of skimpily dressed women wiggling to some disgusting collection of noises, but some are decent ... like that chemicals brothers video where objects seen from a train window came up in accord with the music, or a couple other videos.
Also, nothing makes me relive happy childhood memories as much as watching Queen's "Living on my own" music video (or McCartney's "I got my mind set on you", which was actually the first thing I ever saw on a TV set). Yeah, it's propably more an emotional thing, but ... meh ... and yes, desn't make MTV viable anyway. I can buy me a Queen music video DVD anytime, anyway. |
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Mar 12 2005, 12:02 AM
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#150
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
Well, yeah, theres a few awesome music videos. I really enjoyed the video for "Take Me Out", and I have around 20 or so music videos from bands or songs I like on my computer.
But the whole concept of music videos on the whole just seems silly to me. It does have its gems, but most the way that it forces music artists to not only be artists but now they have to be actors, and how too many people make these weird high-concept videos that end up looking like crap. I mean, look what happened to Guns and Roses. |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 26th December 2024 - 03:43 AM |
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