Alternate Grenade Rules, That I'm considering. Options

[Moonstone Spider]

I find it slightly annoying how accurate launch weapons are at extreme range. I'm considering change the rules a bit and would like an opinion on this house-rule.

Instead of upping the target number, it will stay the same at any range. However the d6 scatter increases by 1 die each time the range goes up, in other words a minigrenade scatters 3d6 at short, 4d6 at med, 5d6 at long, and 6d6 meters at extreme range (Subtract 2 die for air timed link). However even at extreme your base TN to reduce scatter is still 4.

So, is this going to be unbalancing or dangerous?

[Jrayjoker]

How does this sound? The base TN is really just to hit the target, perhaps scatter dice could start at 3d6 for short, 4d6 for medium, 6d6 for long, and 8d6 for extreme with successes on the ranged combat test reducing the number of scatter dice.

If you throw/launch really well the bang is more likely to go off where you want it...

[Kagetenshi]

I'd keep the scaling TN and add additional scatter, myself.

~J

[Moonstone Spider]

Why keep the scaling TN? With both scatter and TN scaling a hit at long/extreme range would be impossible for anyone without an absurd level of skill. After all if each success takes the grenade two meters closer and you have to scale down 18 meters you need 9 successes at TN 9 to get a bullseye. No other weapon has that severe a difficulty.

[DocMortand]

Yes, that's all well an good, but how would these alternate rules be affected by the Grenade Link in CC? (pg.32) It reduces scatter from 3D6 to 1D6 and explodes the grenade in the same combat phase normally.

[Moonstone Spider]

Subtract 2 die at any range. I did mention that although I called it an air-timer link.

[Bigity]

Reduce by 2D6 at any range?

Or maybe by D6 for every range increment, so:

2D6 for Short and Medium
3D6 for Long
4D6 for Extreme

[James McMurray]

I've never liked the fact that grenade throwing turns into a game of hot potato because of the timing on them. Does anyone have a house rule that gets around that, without having to give everyone linked launchers?

[mfb]

make them perform a perception test, with appropriate mods, stack on something like "+2 for small item" or something, in order to locate the grenade.

[DocMortand]

Unless, of course, it's a cinematic moment - like a perception roll not to see the small grenade but to hear something bouncing on the ground toward the group, or bounce off the wall...etc.

I dunno if I would give +2 perception roll to see a small grenade if they're in the middle of a firefight. It is already harder to see the bloody thing because of the firefight chaos.

[Jrayjoker]

If you chose to go that route, then a TN modifier of more than 2 may be more appropriate, especially if there is a melee scuffle going on as well as a firefight.

[Jrayjoker]

Lighting conditions, cover, press of bodies, flare, distracting sounds. They all could add up to a massive modifier pretty easily. And wouldn't there have to be at least two perception tests,one to notice the throw, and one to find it in the fracas?

[mfb]

possibly, yeah.

[Crusher Bob]

From what I remember, a GL is supposed to be accurate for point targets (3 meters of less of scatter) out to around 200 meters and good for area targets (10-15 meters of scatter out to at least 400 meters).

Assuming that our theoretical grenadier has a skill of launch weapons/Grenade launchers of 2/4, spends an action aiming and uses 2 combat pool (the max)...

<checks ranges in the book, what crap>

Reducing our target to 150 meters away to meet a range category (long range) this gives our grenadier TN 5.

One the average, he gets 2 successes... (iirc, grenade launchers scatter 2d6 meters) which means his average scatter is around 5 meters... probably a bit big for that range, but I guess it's not worth changing the rules over.

Increasing scatter dice at long range is not needed as the grenadiers success are already reduced, thus increasing scatter...

On the other hand, you max scatter is always 2d6...

One possibility is to make scatter larger and let successes play a larger role in reducing the scatter. This lets you have the granade go somewhere, even with no successes in hitting the target.

Hmm, no, still not good enough, since at short range, if the scatter is fixed and large then it might scatter somewhere completly different (ie, behind the shooter).

Maybe something like:

Short 2d3 (2-6, avg 4)
Medium 3d3 (3-9, avg 6)
Long 5d3 (5-15 avg 10)
Extreme 8d3 (8-24, avg 16)

I'm using d3 so that the minimum scatter of the grenaders is relatively high. D6 produces way to much variablity.

With a complete miss, change the dice to d6, to find out where the grenade goes?

[edit]
For the grenade fuse timing, most SR grenades can be set for impact so it becomes moot. Also, you can have your characters cook grenades, if the throw range is short.
[/edit]

[Arethusa]

Personally, I find those numbers still a bit punishing. I don't really have an issue with 1d6 scatter at medium and 2d6 at extreme. Just double or triple those for a complete miss. While I recognize the desire for increased precision, precision is precisely what Shadowrun is worst at; adding d3s into an otherwise pure d6 system is a bit too clumsy for my tastes.

[Crusher Bob]

Grenades launchers should not produce pin point accuracy, this if why I made the minimum scatter amounts relatively large. Doing this with d6 produces grenades that you can't hit Texas with...

[Arethusa]

Not really. 1d6 has a lower average than 2d3 and it's normal isn't as tight around the average, but the range is effectively close enough to be comparable. Certainly not an inability to hit texas. I'm not suggesting 2d6 instead of 2d3.

[Fix-it]

Isn't the whole point of a grenade not NEEDING to hit the target with pinpoint accuracy in the first place? :spin:

[Crusher Bob]

If you are firing into a window, into a dugin/sandbagged fortification, etc, then getting through the window or into the fortification is important.