 Grenade counter measures |
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 Jan 13 2005, 12:54 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960  |
My players are very fond of tossing grenades everywhere. So I thought of the idea of a thick weighted kevlar blanket that a response team might toss over a grenade. Stupid idea? Very possible. Think it might work? Should I be tossed over the grenade instead? Comments wanted from someone who may know like materials engineers or something.
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Jan 13 2005, 12:58 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 626 Joined: 1-March 04 Member No.: 6,112 |
It'd work, if they tossed it right. Kinda tough to toss blankets accurately and speedily.
Also very heavy. And unreliable. And short-ranged. Practicable but not well. |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:01 AM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 11-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,961 |
I'm not an expert on explosives or anything, but your idea seems very valid to me. If a response team has a blanket type covering made of Kevlar material with maybe some hardened armor plates so it looks like a very heavy quilt - I think it would work. After all, there are many stories on the US Army's website about people who have won the Medal of Honor (posthumously) for diving on a grenade to save others. A really reinforced blanket made of Kevlar and hardened plates should be able to simulate a "body" and negate/severly reduce the effects of a grenade. Good idea!
EDIT: As an afterthought, I don't know how often the "blast-blanket" could be used. Twice, sure - three times, may reduce the blast, but not negate it - four times, well, it's not going to do much. Five, well, five is right out. |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:03 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 626 Joined: 1-March 04 Member No.: 6,112 |
I know that bomb squads use something similar.
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Jan 13 2005, 01:03 AM
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#5
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I like it, but the chances of having the blanket on hand is low. Maybe some kind of Steel Lynx drone that leaps onto them or something? If you have magic security toss an Earth Elemental over it.
With magic, an LOS version of Fling works well against grenades. So does sealing it in a barrier, etc. |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:07 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 11-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,961 |
Isn't "Fling" a Range:Touch spell that propels the item from the caster's hand? Levitate would work, and not even at a high level since the weight of the grenade is not that much. I can't remember off hand what the rate of movement of Levitate is, but it's actually quite fast.
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Jan 13 2005, 01:12 AM
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#7
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Right, which is why you need an LOS version. Which can easily be made by upping the DL of Fling by one and then lowering it with Restricted Target: Explosives. |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:14 AM
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#8
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
Make it Area Affect and you don't have to worry about targeting the grenade -- just seeing it is sufficient.
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Jan 13 2005, 01:15 AM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 11-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,961 |
Oh, brilliant idea! |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:18 AM
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#10
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That would throw every valid object in the area. |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:38 AM
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#11
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
The blanket is a terrible idea. In theory, a small explosive charge can be pretty decently dampened by a heavy weight ballistic blanket. In reality, good luck getting that thing out, ready, and onto the target before your precious few seconds are up. This is beyond not-at-all-viable. It simply cannot work in any remotely practical application.
Best grenade countermeasure? Run away. Terribly fast. |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:40 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
I have a simpler solution: Fireball them. It's not original, but it'll serve them right when their grenades explode while still with them.
Of course, your idea is also quite interesting. May have to use it. |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:50 AM
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#13
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
A fireball is very unlikely to cause grenades to explode. If anything, they should be more worried about ammunition cooking off and not beinga ble to put out flaming clothing. Or, hell, worried about a GM who feels he has a right to punish his players for properly engaging a tactical sitution.
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Jan 13 2005, 01:50 AM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 11-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,961 |
I don't know if it's all that unusable. If the group is known for using grenades, that info gets around. A tactical unit facing them would try to be prepared for them as best they could.
The tactical unit may have a com-specialist or a medic with them who could roll the blanket up and attach it to their backpack. When they get down to business, the pack comes off and set on the ground next to the user - as with a field radio or medic pack. The blanket can be set to the side and if that person sees a grenade, they could use a simple action to grab the blanket and another simple action to throw it - using their entire combat turn to try and cover the grenade. I think it's possible, but it's not a sure thing. The blanket, when thrown, may miss the grenade, or it may not land in time before it explodes. |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:51 AM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
Yeah, it seems like it would work if timing weren't an issue... which it is. Plus the whole 'having said blanket on hand' element puts a kabosh on the whole idea. Running away works for me. Its free and not very cumbersome.
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Jan 13 2005, 01:55 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
You seem to have some kind of bone to pick with me. Well spit it out then and stop with your little under the table remarks. I thought it was a good idea and I hardly think that the opposition is restricted from developing new tactics and hardly see that as a punishment vs the players. Please explain if you think your point is really valid. |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:59 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
To address the "hold on a sec while I unfold the blankey" issue:
If it does prove to be somewhat effective, then the tactic could be integrated into the units normal SOP with one person carrying the device maybe like a grenadier in a rifle platoon. In certain situations, like a standoff down a hallway or around a corner where they might not see a grenade coming, have that person ready the thing and be prepared to use it as part of normal operations. It would make sense to give up one person from combat to use the blanket than lose 2+ people plus injuries from a frag grenade. |
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Jan 13 2005, 02:01 AM
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#18
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
What about a splat gun filled with freeze foam? |
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Jan 13 2005, 02:03 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Hrmm interesting. I need more information though I'm not familiar with non lethal weapons really.
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Jan 13 2005, 02:05 AM
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#20
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Known for using grenades? What insane world do you live in? You don't get known for using grenades. That's just patently ridiculous. Even if it weren't so insane, what are you expecting? Word gets out to corps everywhere that, oh no, some guys use grenades! No one does that! Blankets are issued to everyone to deal with this new, very important threat! One night, a group attacks and lo and behold, they're recognized as those dastardly grenade users! Forget the rifles, boys! Grab blankets!
Great, so one guy in an entire unit gets to carry a big blanket into combat. He gets weighed down with more gear than everyone else and can still only protect the few people around him, which will not be enough even when everyone's together, much less spread out around an engagement zone.
And there you have the biggest, simplest explanation of why this would be one of the stupidest ideas a soldier could ever try to employ. If it weighs you down, provides you with something else that can go wrong, and can't be guaranteed to work on any level greater than 'possible,' it's a waste of time— especially when running away is free and fast. I cannot emphasize this enough: this is a terrible, terrible idea, and cannot possibly work in anything close to real combat. You do not have the time, the freedom to move without getting shot at, the freedom to carry tons of superfluous gear, and the freedom to waste all your time and effort on attempting to throw a blanket at a grenade that may not work, killing you and everyone around you.
That's great until someone chucks a second grenade down on top of your blankie. |
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Jan 13 2005, 02:10 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
This behavior is quite interesting really. No one on this board has ever before balked at discussing some very questionable (in reality), sometimes esoteric concepts for days on end while vehemently declaring at every opportunity that said concept is valid regardless of reality. But now that I happen to have a theorhetical idea with some possible merit it's denounced as if I'd given birth to the anti christ...lol! :eek:
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Jan 13 2005, 02:13 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Hey, How bout instead of sitting there like your Mr. Combat Knowledge why don't you think of a valid way to stop a grenade. It's pretty easy to denegrate an idea, much harder to come up with your own. |
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Jan 13 2005, 02:16 AM
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#23
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
You seem convinced you're the only person in this thread besides me. Let's review:
My response:
What could have possibly made you assume this was direct at you? |
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Jan 13 2005, 02:16 AM
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#24
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
Toss it back. 8) /Fixit wins teh thread. |
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Jan 13 2005, 02:20 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
I don't see magic as a vaild tactic. Besides you aren't bringing anything to the table besides naysaying crap so think of something good. :D
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