Infusion/Adept Foci and Active Adept Powers? Options

[Cochise]

My usual 0.02¥:

1. The core rules generally limit the maximum rating any power with a rating can have to the adept's magic rating: e.g. magic 6 => improved ability stealth 6 is allowed, while improved ability stealth 7 isn't

2. The core rules limit the total power point cost of all powers to a number of power points equal magic rating. This limitation only counts at chargen: e.g. magic 6 => the sum of all power point costs may not exceed 6 at chargen. However during gameplay, the 20 karma rule allows the adept to exceed the original limitation => he can have magic 6 and a number of powers with a total power point cost of 7 or more (I know that the FAQ suggests that you don't use the 20 karma rule once you play with initiation rules from MitS, but that's not the point here).

3. There's no implicit or explicit restriction of simultanious use of powers in regards to magic rating in the core rules. => An adept who makes use of the 20 karma rule can simultaniously use all his powers under core rules

4. There used to be a rule that explicitly limited the simultanious use of powers to a power point cost equal to effective magic rating: The now errataed bioware rules allowed an adept with bioware to use a number of powers simultaniously as long as their power point total did not exceed the virtual magic rating. This rule is gone now, but back then allowed the interpretation that a similar restriction could be applied to the normal magic rating of an adept as well. This is how it was under non-errataed M&M rules.

5. The new rules on adept and infusion foci do something similar to what the non-errataed M&M rules did: While there's no explicit restriction of that kind in other current publications, these rules implicitly create such a restriction. Thus when playing under SotA'64 rules this restriction is automatically in place.

6. For the sake of consistancy it would be better to have the core rules errataed as well in that regard, because rules through implication tend to lead to discussion like this.

As always YMMV

[mfb]

fistandantilus, you're confusing the infusion metamagic with the infusion focus. infusion foci simply give you adept powers; no centering roll required, nor are they limited by grade.

i'm 99% sure that somewhere in SR3 or MitS, it describes how an adept who's suffered magic loss can switch between his known powers, so that the total pp cost of his active powers isn't higher than his magic score.

[fistandantilus4....]

Sorry, I was going to go off on a tangent about howit would be nice if the infusion focus could give you more die for the centering test, but then I actually read my book again and got my head out butt.
Of course, that put me on a different tanget, which I rambled off on.

That being said, is there a type of focus that would give you more dice for centering infuson METAMAGIC test? At first guess I would say power focus, just becaue they seem to be the foci that cover most everything. Any thoughts?

[mfb]

well, a centering focus gives you extra centering die, with no restriction on how they can be used.

[Mr.Sinister]

I got a reply from ShadowFaq that seems to clarify things...

[mfb]

hm. just so everyone's aware, that clashes with the current FAQ ruling:

[Mr.Sinister]

Which part clashes?

[mfb]

the older FAQ ruling states that purchased power points don't count towards the limit. in other words, if you've got 6 magic, and you buy a power point, you can have seven power points' worth of powers active. in the newer FAQ ruling, if you have 6 magic, and you buy a power point, you have to juggle which six power points' worth of powers you have active at one time.

[Mr.Sinister]

I'll have to look at the FAQ again, because I don't recall anything being an issue.

[Kanada Ten]

Um, it's in his quote of it.

"Any extra power points purchased with Karma do not count against the character's limit of (Magic attribute) number of power points."

[Fortune]

The quoted FAQ entry makes no mention of active Power Points. It merely covers the number of Power Points possessed by the character in relation to their Magic rating.

[mfb]

except that if you add the word "active" into the rules in SR3, then you have to add it into the older FAQ ruling as well, since that rule is what the older FAQ ruling refers to.

[Fortune]

Neither the question nor the response in the FAQ quote you provided have anything to do with the amount of active Power Points an Adept can have at any one time, but rather the amount of overall Power Points an Adept can possess in relation to his Magic rating. Two seperate issues.

[mfb]

the newer FAQ ruling modifies the text on page 168 of SR3. the older FAQ ruling annuls that same text in certain circumstances--the same circumstances that the newer FAQ ruling deals with (ie, what happens when your total power points exceeds your magic rating). these are exactly the same issue, answered in two different ways.

the basic issue is this: the new FAQ specifically says that power points purchased with karma count towards the limit on power points; the older FAQ specifically says that power points purchased with karma do not count towards that very same limit. both deal with the same sentence on page 168 of SR3, but each deal with it in a different--opposite--way.

[Fortune]

I don't see the problem.

Power Points purchased with the '20 Karma rule' are not limited to a character's Magic rating, but do count towards the limit of Power Points active at any given time.

I admit that two seperate FAQ entries would make it clearer though.

[mfb]

yeah, but that seriously hurts adepts, if you're in a BBB-only game. without that limit, adepts are on a roughly even footing with cybered combat characters; with it, adepts can't even begin to compete, beyond chargen.

besides, you're talking about a house rule. there's only one limit on power points--the limit mentioned on page 168. both FAQ rulings refer to that same limit, and modify it in seperate ways.

[Fortune]

A BBB-only Adept with a Magic of 6 could have 14 Points worth of Powers, but could only use 6 at any one time. I don't see this as being limiting in any major way.

To me it's just incentive to use the full Initiation rules.

[mfb]

you don't see that as limiting? he can only use half his powers at any given time; how is that not limiting?

[Fortune]

As far as I know, that has always been the case. Really, how many Powers do you think are necessary to have active at any one time? The Adept in question would be limited to having only 6 levels of Improved Ability (or any other level based Power) anyway, and it isn't likely he's going to need much more than 6 PP worth active at any one time.

As I said, it's incentive to use all the relevant rules for Adepts, instead of gimping them with only the inane '20 Karma rule'.

[mfb]

it wasn't the case until this newer FAQ ruling came out. as for not needing more than 6pp active at one time... well, honestly, that sounds like a pretty boring game, especially for an adept that has 14 total power points. then there's the matter of figuring out what type of action it takes for an adept to switch out active powers, and how many active powers he can switch with a single such action. and the deep, abiding joy involved in having to re-calculate your power point usage every few rounds.

[toturi]

Not necessarily. Choosing whichever adept power is active is not an action by Canon. Therefore you could have have Magic 3 and enjoy the benefits of Combat Sense 3 and Improved Reflexes 2. For most things you rarely require more than 1 power active, or more than 2-3 power points of abilities.

Slow... what Fortune said.

[mfb]

maybe it's just the GMs i play under--i doubt it, because i've played under a pretty wide array compared to people who play SR on tabletop--but i've never taken an adept on any run where he hasn't, at some point, required the use of at least half his powers. and it's an infrequent run where the adept doesn't require nearly all his powers--often more than 6pp worth--at some point.

[toturi]

How often have your PC needed all his adept powers at the same time? Improved Reflexes is needed when you calcualte initiative, but other then that you can drop it for the rest of the round and reactivate it when initiative time comes round again. Pain Resistance may need be active for long durations, but not many other powers I can think require you to have then active for such long durations.

[mfb]

dropping the IR power should drop your init score. IR allows you, on a constant basis, to perform actions more quickly; turning it off means that you can't perform actions as quickly, which means your init score should drop. besides which, IR also boosts your Rea, which keeps you from being surprised. surprise can occur at any time in combat; what's the use of being faster than eveyrone else, if a guy with six init can step out from behind a corner and catch you with your pants down?

and the number of powers which will probably be 'on' for long periods of time is not insignificant: astral perception, blind fighting, combat sense, enhanced perception, improved reflexes, improved sense, magic resistance, magic sense, magical power, mystic armor, pain resistance, rapid healing, sixth sense, spell shroud, temperature tolerance, traceless walk, and true sight.

[toturi]

No, it doesn't. Initiative is not recalculated in the middle of the turn. When you test for Surprise, turn it back on because you are not testing for anything else! So things like thermo, Killing Hands or Improved Abilities can be dropped. And because turning it back on is not an action, you can declare it is on for Surprise and off when you go back to your regularly scheduled programs.

You can turn Mystic Armour for soaking damage but turn it off for Killing Hands when hitting your opponent. In combat, once you use up the Combat Sense dice, you can drop it and declare it active the next time Combat Pool refreshes. Rapid Healing is only necessary when you roll the Body for healing. Similarly, sixth sense is only turned on for Surprise tests and dropped immediately after.

All this is possible because deciding which Adept powers are active is not an action. The only time I can think that you need a Magic 6 at one time is during Surprise and you want to use your Combat Sense, Improved Reflexes and Sixth Sense simultaneously.