 Couple of questions, Need some help creating a MiB type group |
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 Jan 15 2005, 10:44 PM
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#1
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Honolulu, HI Member No.: 6,099  |
Not because they're going to fight aliens...
I'm trying to put together a story involving an agent from a MiB type organization that uses the Center for Disease Control as cover. I've not had much success looking online for the answers, so I'm hoping that the DS community will be a better resource. 1. Is it illegal to not have fingerprints? I'm thinking of the primary way the agent goes about with ID is through retinal scan and various passcodes. Not having fingerprints leaves less evidence at a scene (yes I realize they can wear gloves and have the same results) and I'm also thinking that the agents will have no fingerprints as a base, but a set of fakes grafted as necessary. 2. In television and such, when I see cop/federal agent interaction its, "Hello, I'm Officer So-and-so, or Special Agent so-and-so from the FBI," etc. Is there some requirement that makes you have to identify yourself, giving your fullname, etc? Or can you get by with, "I'm Agent 1132 from the CDC, I have a few questions." Basic overall premise, btw, is that while the CDC today doesn't have this kinda power, CDC of 2060+ is in a nice position. Its independent of UCAS and CAS, yet has authority to act in either. It would make a good staging point for intelligence gathering or as a "Threat". These agents that would go into the community, would be a little more aggressive and of a paramilitary mindset, as their duties now also include ferreting out toxics and insect spirits, and arranging their elimination. Kinda black ops, with specific targets. I'm also basing my Genetic Augments (see other threads) out of this org. The shadoworg under the CDC is responsible in this case, for creating genetically enhanced agents, also loaded with bioware. Any other questions or comments would be welcome. I'm trying to setup a well rounded organization that doesn't have too many gaps in the story. |
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Jan 15 2005, 11:13 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
1. The government can do whatever it wants if its required for national security. Since you're making a super-secret government agency, I'd say they don't have to have fingerprints.
2. Yes. ALL govenment agents must identify themselves to civilians. Especially, if they plan on questioning said citizens. The exception being, once again, national security. For instance, in present time, the USA's NSA has the right to suspend most of your rights (search and siezure, etc.) They also are not required to identify themselves when the process of those acts. Then again, if the NSA comes looking for you, you probably did (or planing on doing) something very naughty. I'd say that your agents should use some sort of cover agency like they did in the movie. It fabricates a sense of "authority." Anyways, sounds like fun. |
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Jan 16 2005, 01:46 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 165 Joined: 30-September 04 Member No.: 6,715 |
Nothing stops the agents from using fake IDs. Simply grab a LAPD police badge, put in an approiate photo and you can identify yourself as 'Detective Smith'. Next day, you're someone else with the correct ID. Not too hard to do for a ultra secret government agency who'd have access to the correct printing equipment. |
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Jan 16 2005, 01:57 AM
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#4
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
I don't think it's illegal to not have fingerprints even if you're NOT a government agent. |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Jan 16 2005, 05:29 AM
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#5
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Guests |
No. People Loose their fingerprints all the time. Hell, sometimes they lose their fingers, or other body parts attached to them.
Yes. Generally there are procedural regulations that law enforcement officers have to follow about all manner of conduct; including the procedures for when to present badge and credentials, their dress code, etc. It also varies amongst different agencies, but not by much. Also, people have a rather awestruck reaction to being confronted by FBI agents. People will tell someone with a badge the most amazing things about themselves and others-- things they'd never rationally tell anyone. People are stupid that way.
The CDC is described in SoNA, and exists as a part of the CAS government. If I was an extranational organization, I wouldn't give a damn about whether I can operate legally in either country, because if worst came to worse we'd have contacts in the UCAS DoJ and CAS DDI and Justice Bureau to cover our agents' asses. Contacts that could give all manner of cover for using fradulent identification to pose as any organization I pleased--including, but not limited to, any federal law enforcement agency, the UCAS NRC; CAS CDC, ERLA; and any regulatory agency that may still be around (OSHA, btw, not being one as far as I'm concerned). Besides, IIRC, the MiB in the movie weren't funded by the U.S. government. Why should yours be?
WTF. The NSA has no legal jurisdiction to operate in any role inside the United States or against any United States citizen. That said, there is a line of legal thought that says that the Fourth Amendment only applies to trial evidence, and so the government can still torture you as long as it doesn't use the evidence against you in court. Assuming you get to court. And, yes, I do think that would be the law in the UCAS in 2064. |
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Jan 16 2005, 05:36 AM
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Ummm....
Is that not what I said? |
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Jan 16 2005, 05:40 AM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Gemme a break. You know what I mean. :) |
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Jan 16 2005, 07:06 AM
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#8
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I know that's true for the CIA, but I wasn't (and am still not) sure about it applying to the NSA. |
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Jan 16 2005, 08:25 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 485 Joined: 25-October 04 Member No.: 6,789 |
CIA cannot perform an operation inside this country, however the NSA can walk all over our butts. Of course everyone looks the other way when the CIA decides to do something and the NSA has a nasty habit of leaving no suspects.
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Jan 16 2005, 08:40 AM
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#10
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Guests |
Well, considering the NSA is part of the Defense Department and commanded by a flag officer, the implications of posse comitatus exist. But I know that it is prohibited from using its capabilities against U.S. citizens. That's what the FBI is for.
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Jan 16 2005, 11:16 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 120 Joined: 3-May 04 Member No.: 6,298 |
Not, of course, literally true. They have expanded powers, but they are not unlimited. Now, do they sometimes operate outside their legal limits? Sure, but that's just reality, that people push their limits, but legal limits do exist.
The NSA's mandate is limited to intercepting communication and securing communication. They are not supposed to spy on American citizens, but between cooperation with the FBI (who can monitor inside the US) and with friendly foreign governments (the Austrialian and British intelligence agencies have no legal problem spying on US citizens), they pretty much do it anyways. Odds are, if someone is kicking down your door in the US, it's local police or the FBI. The CIA and the NSA aren't allowed to. They sometimes bend the rules, but the rules are there. |
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