Anti-Vehicle weapons - Dumpshock Forums

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun

3 Pages

< 1 2 3

Anti-Vehicle weapons, Does dikote count?

Options

Jrayjoker View Member Profile	Jan 18 2005, 08:21 PM Post #51
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675	Kind of like a shaped charge or bazooka shell? Shaped charges can fry through insanely thick steel armor, that is why composites and ceramics got into the fracas in the first place IIRC. the ceramic could disipate the heat more safely than a chunk of steel plate, and the composite behavior made for lighter weight armor with similar and better protection.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Jan 18 2005, 08:23 PM Post #52
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Very much unlike shaped charges. More or less the exact opposite of shaped charges and HEAT (bazooka), actually. ~J

Jrayjoker View Member Profile	Jan 18 2005, 08:25 PM Post #53
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675	So, just a big F-in' bomb? hit the wall hard enough and the shrapnel inside will take care of the contents?

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Jan 18 2005, 08:38 PM Post #54
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	More or less. Again, the head squashed against the side, so it ended up with a fair amount of area being exploded against. The outside of the wall tended to come out not that much the worse for wear, though. ~J

Jrayjoker View Member Profile	Jan 18 2005, 08:49 PM Post #55
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675	Like a cannon ball with blackpowder inside, then. Right? (Only high explosive)

Kagetenshi

Jan 18 2005, 08:54 PM

Post #56

Manus Celer Dei

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 17,008
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802

To be honest, I'm not clear on how a cannonball with blackpowder operates.

From Wikipedia:

QUOTE (Wikipedia.org)

High explosive squash head, also known as HESH or HEP (in US usage, for high-explosive, plastic), rounds are a type of anti-tank explosive. On impact the plastic explosive in the shell spreads out to form a disk on the surface of the armor (think of throwing a large glob of wet modeling clay very forcefully against a brick wall), and is then detonated. The explosive usually does not penetrate the armor directly, instead the shock wave travels through the armor and causes flakes of metal to spall off and fly around the interior of the tank. The resulting fragments injure or kill the crew, damage equipment, and/or ignite ammunition and fuel. HESH shells will rarely actually penetrate the armor.

Developed and used only by the British originally as an anti-pillbox munition for spalling concrete, HESH was found to be surprisingly effective against armor as well. HESH was used for some time as a competitor to the more common HEAT round, and is effective against tanks from the 1950s and 1960s such as the T-55 and T-62.

The British created anti-tank guided missiles in the 1960s using HESH warheads (see Malkara missile). It seems likely that they would have been highly effective, at the time.

Against modern armor HESH is basically useless. Modern tanks have composite or layered armor that does not transmit the shock wave very well, and spall liners made of materials such as Kevlar to catch any flaking that does occur. There is some minor controversy in certain circles about whether HESH would be more effective against reactive armour tiles than other munitions; whether it would be depends on whether it is more likely that the explosives in the tiles would add to the blast and shock effect, or whether current reactive armor tiles incorporate shaped charges to focus the blast outwards.

HESH rounds are still carried today but this is more for use against fortifications than other armoured fighting vehicles. A 165mm HESH round is used by the United States Army for the main gun of the M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle, which is a sort of tank/bulldozer hybrid; the HESH round is intended mainly for use against concrete bunkers and similar structures. The Stryker Mobile Gun System variant is to be equipped with a 105 mm HESH round for the same purpose. Argentina uses the 105mm HESH round to equip its TAM medium tanks.

They are often called hash rounds because it is more natural to say than hesh.

Jrayjoker View Member Profile	Jan 18 2005, 09:26 PM Post #57
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675	It would act very similarly to the HESH I believe. the shell would crask and the powder would flow against the wall/inside of broken ball until the pressure/temperature ignited it.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Jan 18 2005, 09:28 PM Post #58
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Probably a similar mechanic, then. Though the blackpowder probably flowed into cracks more (not that HESH wouldn't, but the idea may have been slightly different). ~J

Austere Emancipa...

Jan 19 2005, 05:00 AM

Post #59

Great Dragon

Group: Members
Posts: 5,889
Joined: 3-August 03
From: A CPI rank 1 country
Member No.: 5,222

QUOTE (Jrayjoker)

Composite, as it applies to structures from large to small, basically means [...]

Composite armor, as it applies to MBTs, basically means what you described above, except that it's almost exclusively ceramics and steel, and perhaps some other metals. Beyond that, well, I at least don't claim to know the exact design of Chobham armor.

QUOTE (Jrayjoker)

Spalling is the falling-off of material. When considering concrete structures it is the surface concrete flaking off of a beam when it is loaded. Sometimes you can see it on a concrete bridge in a harsh environment (the rusty steel showing through the sides).

mfb got the basic idea of it -- it's more or less an internal fragmentation protection layer, of materials such as kevlar. And whether or not that's correctly (in engineering-talk) called "spalling", it's largely there to catch the fragments created when a HEAT or kinetic energy weapon actually penetrates the armor plating. A very narrow "stream" HEAT weapon or a tungsten dart may easily pass straight through a tank without knocking it out or harming anyone inside, as long as the fragments from the armor plating are stopped.

« Next Oldest · Shadowrun · Next Newest »

3 Pages

< 1 2 3

Display Mode: Standard · Switch to: Linear+ · Switch to: Outline

Track this topic · Email this topic · Print this topic · Subscribe to this forum

Lo-Fi Version

Time is now: 2nd January 2025 - 04:35 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.