 Magic Unchecked |
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 Jan 21 2005, 02:24 AM
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#91
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Beetle Eater  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826  |
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Jan 21 2005, 02:26 AM
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#92
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Yes, but game mechanically, it will be:
"You want enough ritual material to summon an elemental that can take on an army regiment?" "Yeah, you heard me right." "OK. Come back, Avail weeks/days/hours and I'll have it ready for you." And "Say chummer, you got enough material for a Force 14 elemental?" "Yeah, I've got it. But it is tough to get stuff like that but since you are my blood brother (Level 3 Contact) I'll keep it quiet for you." And this is not precluding the fact that the mage/shaman could simply get the stuff himself during downtime. Or "Ma! Do you know where is the stockpile of ritual material that Grandma kept?" "Yeah, the Force 14 Air elemental stuff is gathering dust in Level 12, the rest of the Force 14s are in Level 13 of the missle silo Grandpa bought, dear." |
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Jan 21 2005, 02:27 AM
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#93
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 6,736 |
Summoning supplies for a force 14 elemental are going to run you 14k, but the circle itself only costs rating squred nuyen for a non permanent circle (times 100 if you want a permanent one). I recommend using temporary ones unless you plan on conjuring more than 100 force 14 elementals of the same type in the same location. |
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Jan 21 2005, 02:31 AM
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#94
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Why wouldn't you use to summon 100s? All of your contacts are level 3 so they won't tell anyone and the cops don't notice stuff like that anyway... |
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Jan 21 2005, 03:01 AM
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#95
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Don't worry, you won't upset me. It's not the way I run the game, its the way the character in question's game was run. :)
I tend to think that a level 3 contact is of high enough quality that it doesn't matter what his contacts are. Even if they sell him out, he won't sell you out. I also think that its possible for someone to spend their own time getting summoning supplies. Remember, you don't ask "can I get enough to summon a force 14 elemental" you ask "can I get enough to summon 14 force 1 elementals". I could be wrong, but I doubt that's going to set off any alarms. ~200 :nuyen: worth of hermetic circle materials also won't set off any alarms either. Or do you send the Star looking for mages that want to summon 6 force 6 elementals with the flexibility of doing them all at different locations? This isn't "serious mojo" we're talking about here. It's less materials than someone wanting to summon 6 force 6 elementals would require. Sure, there's going to be smoke if you summon earth or fire, but there are plenty of ways to get around that, the easiest of which is to just summon earth and water. But if you really want flight or fire, get yourself a building in the sticks somewhere, that nobody cares if they're sending up smoke. Hell, if its a factory they would get more suspicious if it didn't send up smoke. I'm not saying I would make such a thing easy in my game, and I doubt we'll ever reach that point. But if we do, I'll find more logical reasons to make things difficult than "you bought a little bit of chalk and lit a few fires, the megacorps and the Star are looking for you." And as the original poster said, those elementals were never used unless needed. Doing something every 4-5 runs (if that often) does not constitute an M.O. |
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Jan 21 2005, 03:04 AM
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#96
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Really? Is there a quote to that effect? Ie, that one can simply combine two Summoning Materials and add the Force? Seems odd since nothing else works like that to my knowledge. |
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Jan 21 2005, 03:14 AM
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#97
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
I'd think force 14 materials would have to be higher quality, not just 14 sets of scrub materials.
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Jan 21 2005, 03:17 AM
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#98
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
Well, that's a liberal interpretation of what a level 3 contact means. They do get a bonus to resisting answering questions about the runner that they have the wookie bond with, but other than that they can still flub up in their own dealings with their contacts. And there is nothing to say that level 3 contacts automatically have level 3 contacts that they deal with. It just means that they're friends for life. Anyhow, the point was that there is always a link in the chain at some point. It is that link that can be exploited by smartypant bad guys. ;)
Detectives could establish an M.O. pretty quickly. How many crime scenes would you need to work before noticing that Force 14 elementals were being used more than once? Point here being that it wouldn't take very long for a savvy LS detective to put the pieces together. And toturi, I get the feeling your gaming group is composed of all lawyers. :D |
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Jan 21 2005, 03:17 AM
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#99
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
On a side note: I found the sheet of that one mage we had problems challenging (the one who finally bit a tactical nuclear weapon). Luckily we made it mandatory to track acculated karma for record-keeping purposes.
1713 accumulated good karma. Yep, that's 6 years worth of thrice-a-weeks to once-a-months. edit: The guy's bio (he kept notes on the runs) reads like the memoirs of an immortal elf. Man, what great memories this brings back. I went through about 15 characters while this guy was still running :) |
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Jan 21 2005, 03:20 AM
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#100
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
Oh man, that's unreal. Seriously, I've never heard of someone having that much accumulated karma. :eek:
That's cool though, as long as it was fun. I'm sure there's a cubic butt ton of stories to tell. |
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Jan 21 2005, 03:31 AM
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#101
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 292 Joined: 24-September 04 Member No.: 6,701 |
Actually, I agree with you that I have no illusions that the Star gives a fig about privacy, rights, etc. I do think though that they will exercise some modicum of tact and diplomacy when the occurance is in a high-class (read wealthy and influential) part of town. My point was, and was solely to point out that Astrally-speaking, no matter how much of a "bright beacon in Astral space" all these mage-bashers here are touting, all that doesn't mean squat (Astrally speaking) if it's all taking place behind an opaque wall. And anyone with the means, experience, wherewithal to set something like this up is going to be smart enough to set up Wards, physical security, etc. (And if they're not, they deserve whatever the Star brings them). If the mage is trying to acquire materials via his fixers, then yes, I can see a point how knowledge of this massive circle would leak out onto the streets. For myself, I plan on building up the skills, and infrastructure to make my own materials, formulas and foci w/o outside help. But I'm paranoid that way. |
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Jan 21 2005, 03:50 AM
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#102
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Except that it isn't obviously a massive circle. It could just as easily be 14 tiny circles. I'd also like to point out that summoning materials are legal. And if you have the Star coming after someone for buying 14K worth of summoning materials, do you have the secret service show up if they try to buy 420,000 worth of perfectly legal force 2 power focus?
True, but there's always a link in any chain. By that reasoning any time someone wants to get something illegal from a level 1 contact someone in the chain is likely to spill the beans and everyone gets arrested. It does't matter what the friend for life's contacts are like. The point is that what matters is your contacts reaction at the end. It also depends on how early in the chain the link breaks. Depending on what level the contact's contacts are, someone may make their willpower roll before it even gets to the talismonger whose hoop you've pulled out of a Star fire fight, known since childhood, or whatever. |
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Jan 21 2005, 03:56 AM
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#103
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
That's why you must name someone who has everyone else in his pocket as your level 3. Someone like Lowfyr for example. Or Hestaby.
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Jan 21 2005, 04:08 AM
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#104
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
Well, in RL, if a person purchases :nuyen: 420,000 worth of perfectly legal ammunition (or especially the guns to fire it) they will. In this case, I would qualify summoning materials as "ammunition". |
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Jan 21 2005, 04:08 AM
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#105
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Half right. If it worth the Star's time. Arresting ten people for a crime that will net the Star no publicity and result in low jail time isn't worth it. If the Star is looking for a guy who had his Force 14 elemental kill a squad car, everyone who's ever sold an illegal fetish will feel the squeeze. And it's the Bureau of Firearms, Alcohol, Tobacco and Telesma, not Secret Service. |
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Jan 21 2005, 04:23 AM
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#106
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Yeah, the Bureau of FATT :D
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Jan 21 2005, 04:26 AM
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#107
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Oy. What's it really? BATFT? Dumb name either way.
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Jan 21 2005, 04:37 AM
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#108
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Except that 420,000:nuyen: worth of power focus is perfectly legal. Its more legal than a knife.
You might, but the law (at least canon SR law) doesn't. Enough materials to summon a force 5,000 elemental is more legal than a single bullet. Not saying its realistic, but that doesn't make it any less true. |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Jan 21 2005, 05:12 AM
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#109
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Guests |
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Telesma, and Firearms (BATTF). Threats 2.
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Jan 21 2005, 05:33 AM
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#110
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
You misunderstand my meaning. It is perfectly legal, I didn't dispute that. But purchasing :nuyen: 420,000 worth would be suspicious, and the BATTF or whatever (and whoever else) would want to know what was going down if they caught word of it, for if no other reason than to cover their butts and say they checked it out. Even if someone has a FFL and is planning to open a gun store (ammunition is legal, btw), if they puchase $420,000 in ammunition, they are going to get checked out. |
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Jan 21 2005, 05:50 AM
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#111
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 6,736 |
I would judge from the availability of force/24 hours that it is not possible to combine lesser materials into one big pile o' summoning love. I'm putting my vote in with the must buy suspicious package crew. If you're a 200+ karma runner, evading the ATFT (as they should be called rather than ATTF) is just part of the job. It isn't just a "down time" thing in my opinion, though. |
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Jan 21 2005, 06:49 AM
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#112
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
Exactly. |
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Jan 21 2005, 08:20 AM
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#113
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Frosty: Scan that sheet and post it online somewhere. :D
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Jan 21 2005, 08:31 AM
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#114
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
I don't have a scanner but I'll try to transpose it into notepad or word when I'm at work =) Then I'll just have to figure out where/how to post it.
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Jan 21 2005, 08:40 AM
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#115
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That'd be cool. As for where to put it, just chuck it up in this thread using a spoiler tag.
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