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> Matrix = Headache., Any suggestions?
LordHaHa
post Jan 24 2005, 07:23 AM
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I have a small problem with allowing deckers in my campaign. This is primarily because I can't get my head around the Matrix rules. I've studied them in some detail, but I always get a headache and then forget what little I learned.

I gave one of my players (who, aside from being a long time PnP RPG player/GM is also an ex-hacker) my BBB and Matrix books for a time to look at and study the Matrix rules. This also proved to be not particularly helpful, as he came back to me about with horror stories and tales of conflicting rules.

Does anybody here have any hints that can help one comprehend the current Matrix rules?

LordHaHa
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Adam
post Jan 24 2005, 07:45 AM
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It might help if you post some specific questions as to which bits confuse you.

A good start would be this thread: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...ic=90&hl=matrix - it shows how the Matrix rules work in an ongoing example.

Also, the recent Mr. Johnson's Little Black Book has quick-resolution decking [and rigging] rules.
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LordHaHa
post Jan 24 2005, 08:00 AM
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Thanks. I'll check both avenues of info.

I can't really elaborate what my problem with the Matrix rules are in any great detail at the moment, because I must go to sleep soon (classes later today). As a general rule of thumb, though, I don't understand RTG's and LTG's (and how they work, etc.), how one navigates the Matrix, how you go through and access systems, etc.

I suppose one problem is that my first exposure to the Matrix rules was in SR1, and I have my head linked around SAN's, Datastores, SPU's and their links together and the like. Not that I understood those rules either, but my exposure to them (both through SR1 and in the Genesis game that I played religeously before I got into the PnP side of things) has made the SR3 stuff feel foriegn and uncomfortable when I read them.

LordHaHa
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Synner
post Jan 24 2005, 08:50 AM
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Check the Idiot's Guide to the Matrix thread Adam posted, iirc the first run we did includes a walkthrough of the RTG and LTGs before getting to the LTG/Host the decker was after.
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hobgoblin
post Jan 24 2005, 12:29 PM
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i will never understand why people complain about the matrix rules (or the rigger ones for that matter). only area where there is a problem is with the use of the attack utility as the text contradicts the normal way of useing a utility...

and that ex-hacker friend of yours (hmm, hacker as in coder or hacker as in cracker?) will not be of much use im afraid. the reason is that the matrix rules are just so close to the normal computeing world that experts starts to complain that they cant pull out their favorite tricks for getting past rl computer security...
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Fortune
post Jan 24 2005, 12:47 PM
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The text merely states that you make an attack using your Attack Program, much like you shoot someone using a gun. It might be a little misleading, but it doesn't directly contradict anything.

For what it's worth, ShadowFAQ has stated that Matrix combat works the same way as any other test, using the Decker's Computer skill with the TN modified by the utility.
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 24 2005, 03:03 PM
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The Matrix rules really aren't that contradictory. The nastiest section I've found thus far is the question of Security Tally and multiple deckers, but it's possible to come up with ways to deal with that that go against none of the rules (if slightly byzantine ways).

~J
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Bigity
post Jan 24 2005, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
For what it's worth, ShadowFAQ has stated that Matrix combat works the same way as any other test, using the Decker's Computer skill with the TN modified by the utility.

Could someone explain that a little but more please?
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Moon-Hawk
post Jan 24 2005, 03:30 PM
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For a persona to attack, roll Computer(Decking) against the target number on SR3 pg 224; depending on the target. The power and base damage of the attack is the rating of the program.
For a host to attack using IC, roll the security value against the target number from pg 224. The power of the attack is the rating of the IC. The base damage is from pg 224, and depends on the Host's security code.
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Bigity
post Jan 24 2005, 05:18 PM
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Oh, so the same as I was doing it. Excellent :)

Thanks Moon.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Jan 24 2005, 05:26 PM
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Your are playing SR3 and not SR1 or SR2 yes? My suggestion is to stick with just SR3 at first and then ease into the more complicated Matrix Sourcebook. Get the fundamentals down from SR3 first IMO.

To answer your "RTG vs. LTG", LTG is the Local Telcom Grid that houses the Host computer systems you want to hack. RTG is the Regional Telecom Grid that houses all the LTG's. To use a computer analogy, think of RTG as a folder that contains LTG folders and those folders hold lots of files called Hosts (aka "Your Target").

SR3.204 has good visual picture of how to think of an LTG, but lacks a connector picture of an RTG, but the table on SR3.203 is the listing of some various LTG's housed in their RTG's.
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Moon-Hawk
post Jan 24 2005, 05:27 PM
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Yeah, you're fine. But because of some very strange test some people interpret the rules to imply that you roll the rating of the attack program instead of computer skill.
This has been clarified several times in several places, but it's tough to get the word out to everyone, y'know? Especially since, imho, they don't want to admit that it's a horrible sentence in the first place.

As for making the Matrix easier, one suggestion:
If you have a player that you think is up to the RPing challenge, let them play an Otaku. I know, I know, they were never intended to be PCs, and most people fail to play them correctly, but they do everything just like Deckers, only simpler. All operational utilities are replaced by 5 skills, they have the same "deck statistics" but they're derived from stats so you don't have to worry about constant upgrades, their other utilities are "programmed" more simply, since there's no messing about with programming suites.
It makes the whole set of rules just a bit simpler and easier to tackle. Then, once you're good at the Matrix rules and understand them well, it's easy to add that bit of complexity back in. Maybe even in the same character as they fade and need to start using a deck. (hey, somebody must live that long occasionally)
The Matrix rules are a lot all at once, but I've found that this little bit of simplification can make all the difference. As always, YMMV.
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elbows
post Jan 24 2005, 06:07 PM
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Here's how I handle deckers:
1. A deck costs 40,000 nuyen. You can spend more and get a fancier deck, but it won't help you run the matrix any better -- it's only the software the really matters.

2. All you need to be a decker is a deck, a datajack, and the Computer (Decking) skill. All deckers are assumed to write their own software during downtime, and this isn't a big deal.

3. All decking is resolved by an opposed test of Computer (Decking) vs. the host's rating (the host only has one rating). I do use security tally/IC to some extent, but my rules for it are greatly simplified.

4. I ditch cybercombat entirely -- some IC can dump you from the system by beating you in an opposed test, but there's no damage/condition monitor.

5. I try to play up the social engineering aspects of decking, rather than the dice rolling.

Of course none of this is remotely cannon, but it has several nice side effects:
1. I can remember the decking rules :)
2. Creating a decker character no longer requires many hours and a calculator.
3. Decking is resolved quickly, so the rest of the group doesn't get bored.
4. Deckers have lots of points left over to be good at other things, so they don't get bored when not decking.

Of course, a player who is really into decking and wants that to be the sole focus of his character won't be happy with these rules. But so far, it hasn't been a problem.
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Bigity
post Jan 24 2005, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (elbows)
Here's how I handle deckers:
1. A deck costs 40,000 nuyen. You can spend more and get a fancier deck, but it won't help you run the matrix any better -- it's only the software the really matters.

2. All you need to be a decker is a deck, a datajack, and the Computer (Decking) skill. All deckers are assumed to write their own software during downtime, and this isn't a big deal.

3. All decking is resolved by an opposed test of Computer (Decking) vs. the host's rating (the host only has one rating). I do use security tally/IC to some extent, but my rules for it are greatly simplified.

4. I ditch cybercombat entirely -- some IC can dump you from the system by beating you in an opposed test, but there's no damage/condition monitor.

5. I try to play up the social engineering aspects of decking, rather than the dice rolling.

Of course none of this is remotely cannon, but it has several nice side effects:
1. I can remember the decking rules :)
2. Creating a decker character no longer requires many hours and a calculator.
3. Decking is resolved quickly, so the rest of the group doesn't get bored.
4. Deckers have lots of points left over to be good at other things, so they don't get bored when not decking.

Of course, a player who is really into decking and wants that to be the sole focus of his character won't be happy with these rules. But so far, it hasn't been a problem.

1) Decks cost way, way, way more then 40k. I think you may have meant 400k, which is a good starting deck, but is not that great. Deck hardware can have a huge impact on a decker's effectiveness though, and even moreso on his survivability. (Response Increase, Hardening, ICCM filter, etc)

2) True, but certain other things help. Math SPU, Cerebral Booster, etc.

3) Security tally isn't too complicated, IMO. I like subsystem ratings, personally.

4) No cybercombat? What fun is that??? ;) Except for the extra hour you get to spend with the PCs as a group instead of just the decker :)

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elbows
post Jan 24 2005, 09:53 PM
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No, I really meant 40k.
The whole point of my rules is that you don't have to spend all your money on a deck. I wanted to make it easy to be a decent decker and still have money/points left over to do other stuff.

Yes, this means it's much easier to be a good decker than it is to be a good street sam/mage/whatever. But decking tends to be a small component of my games so it hasn't been a problem.

Also, I tend to run street-level games with low resources for starting characters, so the 40k price tag puts decking in reach.
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hobgoblin
post Jan 25 2005, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
The Matrix rules really aren't that contradictory. The nastiest section I've found thus far is the question of Security Tally and multiple deckers, but it's possible to come up with ways to deal with that that go against none of the rules (if slightly byzantine ways).

~J

simplest way to "fix" that one is to state that matrix rules override sr3 rules if they contradict (or dont mix cleanly). think of it as a slight upgrade to the software :cyber:

as for those that claim you need a calculator to start out a decker, stay away from the custom deck section and the utilty option section of matrix. that way you only have to deal with stock decks and utilitys and you get some training doing multiplication in your head ;) (or just look up the table on 223 in sr3. and if the player wants to use those sections, tell him to do the math himself :P
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