 Dikote |
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 Jan 26 2005, 02:47 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 26-January 05 From: charlotte maga sprawl in the confederated american states AKA hell Member No.: 7,018  |
ok im going to run and hide from every one cuzz i know we all hate dikote but i have some questions about costs
i know you can dikote spurs but ive never see a price can any one give me a price for troll dikoted spurs. im also looking to get a price for dikoting some bone lacing as well as body armor. |
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Jan 26 2005, 02:59 AM
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#2
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Surface area of a spur (2in radius X 12in length) 0.0574222 m^2 per spur?
I've always thought Doctor Funk's 24,000ish number was good for spur dikote. |
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Jan 26 2005, 01:17 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
I tend to set a minimum dikoting price on small objects like spurs and knives at 1000 nuyen, just for easy record keeping.
You can't dikote bonelacing. Bonelacing is deposited directly on the bones using nanites. Dikoting is deposited using a 1200C (2200F) microwave furnace filled with methane and hydrogen, which has rather negative effects on laced bones. (And unlaced bones, and the surrounding flesh). Also, of all the bonelacing materials, only ceramic and titanium have a chance of surviving the dikoting process. Titanium bonelacing's properties would probably be ruined by the heat and hydrogen embrittlement. The ceramic that nanites would deposit on living bone would probably not like a high temperature oven, either.
Sure. Body armor coats at the rate of 1000 nuyen per 100 square centimers (a 4" x 4" area). Note that very few body armors can survive the coating process. Basically, I only let security and military grade armors survive, some helmets, and "vest with plates." Most body armor materials will turn to ash in a dikoting furnace. |
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Jan 26 2005, 01:25 PM
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#4
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Wouldn't the metal of a sword,spur, or knife also suffer from the hydrogen embrittlement issue? I know you can't galvanize A490 bolts due to that issue, I don't see why swords would be any less subject to the issue than titanium or steel bolts.
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Jan 26 2005, 02:17 PM
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#5
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
No rationalizing Dikote!!! :P
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Jan 26 2005, 03:46 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 22-October 03 Member No.: 5,757 |
Dikote is the byproduct that is generated when a mages makes loves his/her ally spirit Ares Slivergun Homonculi Drone. Tiny gnomes aka nanites gather up the byproduct and paint it gingerly onto your items for a very large price.
It's in the book. |
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Jan 26 2005, 03:48 PM
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#7
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Actually, in the book, it states that dikoteing has a minimum price of 1,000 on anything. So it'd be 1,000 for some earrings, a knife, pen, paperclip, whatever you wanted that was below the base size. |
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Jan 26 2005, 03:54 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Though its performance enhancement of weapons is rather exaggerated (as is its price), most of Dikote is quite rational. There's no harm rationalizing it, particularly when GMs are called upon to make decisions about what can and cannot be dikoted.
The hydrogen embrittlement threat depends on the alloy. Some steels couldn't care less about hydrogen, while others get quite brittle (generally, the stronger the steel, the more vulnerable it is). I think titanium and its alloys are generally vulnerable to hydrogen; ditto for aluminum. I should've remembered this earlier: you can bake the hydrogen out of most metals, getting to diffuse back into the atmosphere (or vacuum) of a furnace. A dikoting oven would be well-suited to perform this post-dikoting bake. Just pump out the lingering gases and tune the oven to a suitable temperature. Of course, that bake-out is just one more reason that you cannot dikote bonelacing. |
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Jan 26 2005, 03:56 PM
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#9
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Heres an even more rational reason why you can't dikote bonelacing. You punch, your now very sharp and hard bones come out through the tops of your finger and hand, as well as having your shoulder come out your back. Congratulations.
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Jan 26 2005, 07:23 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 26-January 05 From: charlotte maga sprawl in the confederated american states AKA hell Member No.: 7,018 |
dikoting bone lacing isnt to make is sharper like you do on blades. it makes it harder like the plates in armor when you move around with armor on the now dikoted plates dont cut you apart or the vest that hold them so why would dikoted bones cut your arms open just by punching |
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Jan 26 2005, 07:27 PM
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#11
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
The biggest concern with dikoting your bones would be the lack of friction between your tendons and ligaments, etc. I could see a lot of dislocations due to extreme slipperiness of dikoted bones (think teflon or kynar, similar concept actually). It would be like having enhanced articulation all over and not just in the joints.
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Jan 26 2005, 07:29 PM
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#12
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 |
I was just wondering about this in regards to basic bone lacing myself. How do tendons and muscle attach to..say ceramic?
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Jan 26 2005, 07:32 PM
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#13
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
I would guess that since the bone is covered by the tendon/ligament anchorage the bone there would not be coated during implantation.
Perhaps teflon bonelacing is the cheap man's dikote... |
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Jan 26 2005, 07:43 PM
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#14
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Avatar of Mediocrity Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 725 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle, WA (err, UCAS) Member No.: 277 |
Yah, the bones aren't removed, laced, and put back in - they're laced in situ by loads of nanites. I presume the insertion points of muscles etc don't get laced. |
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Jan 26 2005, 08:06 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
So...don't coat the entire bone, just follow bonelacing's tricks (if you figure out how to Dikote bones).
Bone is a ceramic. ;) Bonelacing doesn't necessarily undercut tendons and muscles or, if it does, its designed for good attachment. There's a number of tricks in today's implants (e.g., hip implants) for getting good attachment with existing bone. Something similar could probably be cooked up for bonelacing and tendons if it was needed. |
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Jan 26 2005, 09:21 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 |
Yup, I didn't even think about how the lacing was applied, duh. Stupid nanites.
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Jan 26 2005, 09:30 PM
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#17
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Avatar of Mediocrity Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 725 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle, WA (err, UCAS) Member No.: 277 |
There's that neat trick from ACL surgery where they drill a hole through a bone, pass the tendon through the hole, and tie a knot in the other end. The knot keeps the tendon from coming free during the healing process. A little bit nasty, but I guess it works... |
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Jan 26 2005, 11:08 PM
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#18
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Embrittlement doesn't matter so much because the object is coated with diamond. So long as the diamond holds up it'll remain together. The base material just provides shape for the diamond coating. Its popular because building a sword out of solid diamond would be much more expensive.
For bonelacing, on the other hand. It would require removing your skin first. |
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Jan 26 2005, 11:15 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
And don't you think that some people would remove their skin?
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Jan 26 2005, 11:16 PM
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#20
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Then the muscle, and then destroying your bone marrow (if not the bone itself) for a +2 armor rating and a cost I don't even want to calculate?
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Jan 26 2005, 11:57 PM
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#21
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
DOn't forget romoving the brain from the skull. Unless you don't mind it being cremated.
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Jan 27 2005, 12:11 AM
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#22
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
huh? it wouldn't require removing your skin, it'd require removing your bones--probably one at a time, or even a piece at a time--then coating them, then sticking them back in place. of course, there's the question of whether or not bone can survive the application process intact.
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Jan 27 2005, 12:21 AM
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#23
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
I'm fairly positive that putting your bones through a plasma furnace results in a lot of carbon ash and no bone. This doensn't even count the fact that it was stated that the current forms of bone lacing are the only materials that could be made to work with the process. dikote isn't on that list.
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Jan 27 2005, 01:34 AM
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#24
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
the best way to do it, honestly, would be to just nanoforge a diamond-laced calcium bone around cloned marrow, then use more nanites to help grow cappillaries into the porous bone structure at the top and bottom of most bones to heck with this pussy "keep the original bones" nonsense.
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Jan 27 2005, 01:43 AM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Yes, and? Diamond's an impressive material, but it has its limits. As a thin coating (Dikote), it isn't a structural reinforcement. It's too thin - the ratio of length (or width) to thickness means it'll buckle (if it's unsupported) as soon as you look at it cross-eyed. The substrate determines the bulk structural properties of the item.
No. Remember, the force required to break a material is equal to its strength (measured in psi or pascals - force per unit area) times the cross-sectional area of the material you're trying to break. Dikoting is THIN, so even if diamond's strength is high, the diamond coating won't need much total force to break. Diamond's impressive stuff, but it's tensile strength is only a factor of 2 higher than ultra-strong steels, and its compressive strength is within an order of magnitude of super-steels. At micron-thicknesses, Dikoting won't be aiding the structure it covers much. It'll require a few more pounds to the breaking force of the structure. |
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